Morning Lesson August 9, 2023

Transcription is made from simultaneous translation, which leaves a possibility for differences in the audio.

Part 1:

Rabash. Article 15, (1984). Can Something Negative Come Down from Above

1. Rav’s Introduction (00:35): Is it possible? Seemingly no. So, why is there even a question? Apparently, here we need to see the answer that indeed from the heavens there could be something negative or positive but we need to see in the goal in both of them. Apparently, we will see, I do not know. 

Reading (01:08) “Can Something Negative Come Down From Above”

2. R. (24:27) What is the response, what is the response?

S. (24:38) I didn't understand what is the medium between truth and false?

R. Falsehood of truth. 

S. What is that?

R. Or truth of falsehood. Well, seemingly yes.

3. S. (25:06) He writes that in order to come from Lo Lishma to Lishma the revelation of the face of the Creator is needed. What is that the Creator testifies that he will not return to folly?

R. That only the reforming light, if one will receive it, through this light he will come closer to the Creator, he will see Him, understand Him, this is what will correct him finally so that he will no longer return to the state that he had before. This means that a person must reach a state where the upper light, the Creator that is, testifies on him that he will not turn back to folly. 

4. S. (26:25) He writes about bestowing in order to bestow that it’s the aspect of Dvekut and equivalence of form, it is still only the correction of creation. Then he says we have to reach receiving in order to bestow. How could it be that if I am bestowing in order to bestow, which is adhesion and equivalent to form, still not the end of the path, what is left?

R. Because according to the action he still needs to reach receiving in order to bestow and the Creator is not in that but only in bestowing therefore, for a person, he needs to take another step forward, to receive in order to bestow.

S. It seems far from us but we always learn that if you can feel or try to kind of imagine it more we say that adhesion and equivalence of form is the final correction. What is left after a person has adhesion and equivalence of form. What’s left to do?

R. There's adhesion and there is equivalence of form where a person receives in everything that he receives because this is what he can do according to his nature. He does not have anything else to do but only receive, so if he receives only in order to bestow contentment to the Creator it is a sign that according to his intention he is in unity with the Creator. That's it, this is the end of the way there is no more.

S. He writes that it is not the end of the road, that bestowing in order to bestow is equivalence of form?

R. It's not bestowing I’m talking about receiving in order to bestow.

S. So why does he call bestowing in order to bestow adhesion and equivalence of form?

R. There is a matter of the intention here and also the action. According to the intention, bestowing in order to bestow, he does everything with intention but still the action is missing here because according to the action his vessels are still empty. He needs also to receive in order to bestow and then he truly as it is written, all of my bones shall tell, that these vessels of reception will all be in order to bestow. A person because he was created from a will to receive has to work with his entire will to receive in order to bestow. The Creator does not have vessels of reception and therefore He is simply in bestowal.

S. So there's a kind of degree here that the Creator is only bestowing and now we in the process of correction we reach bestowing in order to bestow and then he calls that really adhesion. We are like the Creator we only want to bestow.

R. According to our intention.

S. Yes, and there is another state of receiving in order to bestow, so it is like we are…?

R. We use our nature to receive, we use that as well in order to bestow.

S. So it sounds like we bypass the Creator or pass and develop more than the Creator?

R. Yes.

5. S. (30:24) He writes in the article that it is better to stay in the corporeal will to receive as opposed to acquiring these spiritual desire to receive, why does he write that?

R. If a person is not corrected then it is preferable to stay in a desire which is as low as as small as possible. If he’s capable of correcting it then it is preferable to correct each and every desire to receive because by this he will equalize himself with the Creator.

S. Who is the great expert doctor for us who shows us the bigger illness so that we can heal it?

R. Only the Creator who else? Only the Creator.

6. S. (31:27) He writes there are many people who do not have the scrutiny of truth. How to learn to better clarify the truth and deceive myself less?

R. Adhere to the environment, adhere to the environment there is no more.

S. Exactly, we have a means called a ten and how do we use the ten to scrutinize the truth?

R. As much as you adhere more to the ten, not to one or two out of the ten, that is not considered that you are adhering to the environment, but rather to everyone, then it is possible to say that you already begin to belong in your vessel to spirituality.

S. How to perceive the ten as a single body like you say, one, two, second, third?

R. This is very important otherwise you are not really touching the ten, you are not touching it. You need to see your whole environment as much as it is three or four or maybe nine or ten, it doesn’t matter how many, and to adhere to them so that everything that you do you are doing it for them and through them to the Creator, that comes later.

S. Still I cannot seem to change the approach. That these from the ten are going with me and the others are going with me, that's what do I do?

R. Accordingly, you have to relate to them in a certain way, to this more, to this less, to these this way, to those that way, the most important is that in the end you want to see the ten as a single complex.

S. I still see the ten as a single whole but in that whole I do see those that are less moving on the path and those that are more but it is a complete picture.

R. If you relate to them this way then you will reach a state that you will see that they are all walking on the path however, there is a difference in the kind of work they do, not the manners of the work.

S. So maybe also in the condition that each one?

R. Yes, according to that.

7. S. (34:44) I wanted to ask about the difference between the third and fourth states: He writes that the third state is already considered Lo Lishma and that this is called Dvekut and equivalent to form, so why do you need more than that? Why, what is missing, what is he missing?

R. What’s missing is, in practice, in action to resemble the Creator. Every person who adheres to the ten should resemble the Creator in that he brings to the ten, he passes on to the ten all of the forces.

S. But isn't Lishma in practice and if he is in Lishma this is not in actuality?

R. It depends on which degree of Lishma.

S. When he writes about bestowing in order to bestow.

R. That is not enough.

S. But he calls it Lishma..

R. Yes, because it is not for himself, but in that he is not bestowing yet.

S. How is he not bestowing if he is already in Dvekut and equivalence in form? What do you need more than that?

R. It is not complete adhesion, he is not receiving.

S. What is it in the third state that prevents wholeness that you have in the fourth state?

R. What is in the fourth state that is missing in the third state? The difference between Bina and Keter and Bina and Malchut is that Bina does not receive. Bina is GAR however ZAT of Bina receives and passes on, it gives, it fills the other vessels.

S. The work in Lishma doesn’t end, meaning Lishma is not the end of the work.

R. Lishma incorporates two degrees, to bestow in order to bestow and to receive in order to bestow.

S. What is the difference in Lishma between the degrees?

R. That we use the vessels of reception or not.

S. Even though we always say ultimately that the correction is already intention but it is not just the intention ultimately it is the desire too.

R. The intention which is above using the desires. To bestow in order to bestow is half Bina, to receive in order to bestow is all of Bina, that incorporates both the Keter as well as the Malchut.

S. So the addition of the third state is what, is using the desire as well in that?

R. Uses the desire to bestow and the desire to receive to the fullest.

8. S. (38:15) There's a piece here where it says, but when can a person know if he already entered the degree of Lishma? What is this sign that he knows that is now in the degree of truth? The question is, if a person already enters Jerusalem and he is in Jerusalem he is in bestowing in order to bestow. Why does he need any signs, he knows he is there, right? It’s not something that he needs a hint for, he arrived.

R. What does it mean he arrived? With which vessels did he arrive?

S. Like we discussed the Dvekut and bestowing in order to bestow

R. So he incorporates, he is incorporated in his higher degree or not?

S. In the third degree he is incorporated but does he know it or not?

R. That too is important, that is right.

S. So what is the answer Rav, he knows?

R. The answer is that this speaks from the side of the Creator and from the side of the created being. Both of them understand where they are, where they meet. It needs to be Malchut and Bina and Keter together.

S. It is clear to everyone what is happening there, I'm saying to the created being

R. Yes. 

9. S. (39:54) I want to ask about the scrutiny of truth. He says that there are many people who do not do the scrutiny and they think that whatever they do is for the sake of heaven and 100% and they’re all good, and there are people who always feel far, meaning that they do this scrutiny of truth, and in practice every time they check they see that they are really not to 100% in Lishma. What is the benefit of this scrutiny of truth that always gives a person a feeling that he is not okay?

R. The benefit is that he can advance more, he can reach a higher degree, a greater degree of Lo  Lishma.

S. It is as if the progress depends on how much a person can suffer all the time

R. That too, yes.

S. He blames the other people who think they can do everything Lishma, he says they don’t have a true feeling either because of their nature or because they did not have a good teacher, educator, showing them how not to deceive themselves. What is this direction of the teacher who shows the students how not to deceive themselves?

R. So that the upper light does not influence them so that they can see that they have not reached the full correction.

S. In the ten we need to help each other be in a scrutiny of truth all the time?

R. That certainly, but we do not know what the truth is. We have to be in a ten and each one should show an example to the others, external example, an externality of how we need to behave.

S. Okay, he said another thing, that one could not add an intention if he doesn’t have an action, as if the intention has to come after an action.

R. Yes the intention is the result of the action. If I perform a correct action then my intention also improves and it becomes more clean, pure.

S. If a person is not corrected, what action can you do what action is he talking about, that it will then give him an intention or that he can look for an intention. What actions are we talking about?

R. Acts of connection. Acts of connection. This is how he starts the article actually.

S. So if someone is doing the maximum he can in connecting to the friends, caring for them as much as he can, but ultimately he sees that the calculation is that it is not truth, that he does it for self-benefit or, you know.

R. Even if he does it for himself however if he receives new points of scrutiny.

S. The result of this calculation is always that you feel that you are bad, not walking on the path of truth and so on?

R. And isn't it good that you receive such scrutinies?

S. It is like the good doctor that tells you you have a serious disease. It is good but it is unpleasant?

R. It is not pleasant. Truth or not the truth, that is what it’s all about.

10. S. (44:14) It seems like the first stage there is no work, all the world is pretty much in that state. When the point in the heart shines we enter the second stage and here we are told to stop bestowing and we say there is great reward in here so I will start studying Kabbalah, I will start trying to bestow in order to receive at first.

R. That is how everyone starts, yes.

S. Then it seems like most of our work is just this movement from the second to the third degree, so the whole study of Kabbalah until a person enters Lishma is that shift from two to three?

R. Yes that is the most important.

S. So it begs some intermediate degree of bestowing in order to receive in order to bestow because after the first campus course you understand that it is insufficient to bestow in order to receive, you understand that it is not good that you just can't stay in a feeling like I came here to benefit big time, you have to change your intention.

R. (No answer from Rav)

S. The feeling is that quite quickly when you enter the wisdom of Kabbalah you start from wanting to benefit big time and then, at least those who stay in the study, understand that this is not the formula that is being offered to us here. Baal HaSulam, Rabash, we do not offer people common benefit, make a big profit, but ultimately you have to bestow and love and give.

R. Yes.

S. Which is a means?

R. To reach the final correction, yes.

S. So we are not exactly in two and we are not exactly in three, we are like in between two and three

R. Well let us say so.

S. So it is weird that it doesn't deserve a whole degree.

R. (No comment from Rav)

S. If this is basically almost all of our work until we cross the barrier, break into Lishma, the whole work is not two or three, it is something in between.

R. But one is to receive. Two is? 

S. That I bestow in order to receive. So I come to the store to the friends but it is in order for me to enjoy. 

R. Okay.

S. We are not in that. Those who are in that don't find themselves that they stay in the studies for a long time because you understand you have to come out of that, that it is not the end of the path. What I'm saying is we are spending the whole time not in two and not in three, but it doesn't have a place here and he explains that it is a transition. How would you call that? Let's say it is not two or three then what will be the name that you would give to this work that we do?

R. What is its intention?

S. The intention is to come from two to three.

R. What is the action?

S. The action is connecting with the ten.

R. I don't have any answer. I don't have any answer.

11. S. (48:14) I very much disagree with our friend. Are we even in receiving an order to receive in our work?

R. Yes.

S. If we already have the spiritual will to receive as he calls it in the article?

R. Well, not yet but we are on the way.

S. So the question is then what is our work and entering the first stage of receiving in order to receive?

R. Well…

S. That is what we are working on, no? We’re not working on bestowing in order to bestow.

R. Yes, do you want to reach that or not?

S. Yes, we also want to achieve receiving in order to bestow?

R. No, no, no. Those are just words.

S. The question is, where are we and what are we working on in terms of what is our present degree and where is it that we want to reach in the next degree?

R. What is the present degree?

S. I’m asking if we even reached receiving in order to receive?

R. Why do you think that we haven't?

S. Because that means that there is already an intention. In order to receive is that you have a spiritual desire having some attainment already and using it in order to receive. It’s a question to me, I’m not sure.

R. No, no. Such a desire cannot exist before we receive it. From where will you have the desire to receive spirituality?

S. So we haven't even entered these four states yet?

R. Maybe you are not counting them correctly.

S. Then how do I count them?

R. We will see, I do not know, I do not know. 

12. S. (51:00) According to what he writes here there is some springboard between bestowing in order to receive and bestowing in order to bestow. That springboard, maybe that is not clear. What is the springboard? Maybe that's what a friend asked.

R. That is the most important. This is what links between them.

S. But we know we live in a lie, we already do, so what is that state of really living in falsehood and thinking it is truth when we are not there already? What is that state?

R. Well, we need to scrutinize it, all right? We need to scrutinize it.

13. S. (51:47) Maybe with regards to the friend’s question I think that if we were mature to receive all the truth in our face we would. We perhaps don't yet have the sufficient preparation of mutual connection between us to prepare the ground to receive this truth that we are in falsehood completely, so we are preparing for that, in preparation to receive the truth. Having in fact that we have that ups and downs and states island so forth it’s not sufficient, we have to really reach such a certain mutual guarantee between us that we’ll be capable of accepting the truth and doing something with it, otherwise, even if they want to bestow to us from above it is impossible.

R. Yes.

14. S. (52:41) He said that in every state if I understood correctly, Malchut, Bina, Keter need to be together. How can that be?

R. Together. Malchut, Bina, and Keter only be together if they are already corrected, where they receive everything that is revealed in Malchut through the corrections that they get through Bina and they reach the degree of Keter. This is indeed already the end of correction because the degrees of Hochma and Zeir Anpin, they only pass the force from Keter to Bina and from Bina to Malchut.

S. When a Kabbalist works with a desire that appeared in him so he has to go through the stages in each and every desire?

R. Yes, but it is not so elaborate as you think.

S. You said once how he asked you to buy the best cheese, the most expensive cheese, that he know how to enjoy good food and simpler pleasures, so all the pleasures need to be corrected in receiving in order to bestow even in that

R. No, no, this is according to what is revealed in us according to what the Creator reveals to each and everyone, every moment of what it is that he needs to do.

15. S. (55:07) I just wanted to add to the friend that he writes here, why should I exert in order to reach the spiritual will to receive and become worse?  It’s like when the light is turned on you see that everything is worse, how worse you are, so this is kind of a degree that when you think that you reach Lishma everything is good and we are in just goodness, but when you come to Lishma you're being shown how bad you are and then you start working. Before that there was no work.

R. You could say that, yes.

16. S. (56:07) Is the corporeal will to receive and the spiritual well to receive, are they contradictory to each other? How can we overcome this powerful combination between them?

R. We’ll wait until the spiritual will to receive will be revealed and then we will see the relationship between the spiritual and the corporeal one. 

17. S. (56:52) I want to scrutinize the following point, you said that if we operate correctly with the actions of connections our intentions also improve, they have to get better, so I want to scrutinize, what is the right action in order for an action to be considered as correct? It’'s enough that it's towards connection?

R. That is sufficient.

18. S. (57:33) What has to be our answer when from above arrives the knowledge of the bad, the evil? Don't we feel more distance from Him and the prayer becomes more harder? How is it possible during the revelation of the evil not to be far and to be in adhesion with the Creator?

R. Only connection. There's nothing else besides that; besides that there's nothing

19. S. (58:21) How can we see the whole ten as one whole?

R. Yes that's a question. This is, I would say, the central question. I think that we should read again the article and then think of the solution. 

Reading (58:50) Again 

20. S. (01:21:54) He writes here, previously, that “one can't give the intention if he doesn't have an action and once he has an action then he can make an effort that the action will be in the correct lane called, ‘for the sake of the Heavens’, ‘sake of the Creator’”; and then he writes, later on, in the second discernment, that, okay, all the actions are already okay, “actions are done and  scrutinies are then made for the intention, and he reveals the truth that all his intentions are no good, and then he needs to focus on correction of the intentions”, if I get this correctly. It says here “turns out there's no work in the actions only in the intention, this is all our work”, and so on and so on, so intentions he reveals, they're not good; and then suddenly he sees that even the actions he can't do, as a result. So it turns out in such a state he needs to go back to what he wrote beforehand, that we need to tell our body that we need to believe, like, try to make the effort from the actions or should we just leave the action to focus on intention?

R. I don't understand exactly what's the benefit in deeds without intentions; the intentions are a must but whether they are right intentions or not.

S. That's the matter, it seems that what you wrote here, that first of all he reaches a state that his actions are okay and then he scrutinizing the intention and he goes on from there; but practically he sees that even his action is not okay, not just intentions, not okay and everything so he has no actions or intentions?

R. Let's say?

S. So he can say to himself I need to focus on actions because this is what brings me illumination in that I can't correct intentions or does he say I'm not giving actions to do because I can't be focused on the intention, so I should focus on that?

R. Okay, I see we'll scrutinize it.

21. S. (01:24:36) After reading an article a second time I understood that the spiritual will to receive is also a high matter, it means that a person prefers spiritual pleasures over all the corporeal pleasures.

R. Right?

S. How does a person attain such a desire?

R. He gets an illimination from above that helps him advance, then he sees that to engage in the will to bestow is higher than engaging with the will to receive, all together..

S. So we can bring him now, like I mean, he didn't get all the pleasures in the world which will determine that I want only spirituality.

R. Well?

S. So how does he really know that that's the only thing that he wants?

R. He sees that according to his desire he doesn't have to go through all pleasure that exist in the world, he doesn't have to, but he feels that everything goes according to a person's feelings, if a person feels that I don't want more than this, it's a sign that he got the biggest desire, according to his opinion, you can't compare it to anyone.

S. That a person was given such a desire means he's ready to go to Lishma?

R. Yes .

22. S. (01:26:35) I wanted to ask: The degree of preparation we are in, it's like very odd, we’re going through all the discernments he mentions in the article but, like all of them.

R. Yes?

S. So what are we doing in our degree of preparation comparing to these true degrees

R. It's a preparation, it's like exercises.

S. What's happening to us as we do these exercises, what does it build.

R. That you can depict for yourselves such degrees as if you're already on them, as if you're working on them, uplifting above them or falling from them and so on, but all these things it's a preparation, it's not true.

S. Ultimately this preparation leads to something with which we can reach the truth?

R. Right.

S. So what is truly built that brings us to the truth?

R. A willingness to reach the truth. 

23. S. (01:28:06) In the state of second discernment, I understand the person does actions of connection in the group, he explains to the body, “it's worthwhile to you, it's better for you”, he can't do any action otherwise, right?

R. Yes.

S. So a person can be stuck in the state a long time where he tells his body “it'll be better for you like this” and everyone can imagine to himself what he wants, what triggers a person to get out of this and find a field to actually do some action because he has to do something, what is the cause, what causes him to move on to the third phase?

R. Why, the third phase is already.

S. It's Lishma, right?

R. Yes.

S. So what, how to not remain in this that I just come here and connect, I tell my body, I guess if I'm here the body must have gotteen some fuel to get here and must be convincing it and intend reward?

R. Yes but you have nothing to give to the Creator, as you said this second phase still has no result.

S. That's clear, there's no equivalent to form here, so what trigger it?

R. You're lacking vessels of reception.

S. Reception?

R. Yes, vessels of reception to receive in order to bestow.

S. That's why I'm asking, what causes a person to work without fuel?

R. Without fuel a person can't work, his fuel is to identify with the Creator even though he has vessels of reception.

S. What makes the transition for this that I'm working, convincing my body that it's worthwhile for you to actually be able to work, let's say on a different fuel, what makes this transition?

R. Only the greatness of the Creator, help only the greatness of the Creator can help with that.

S. It's clear, and of course we want to utilize this in the group, but still>

R. Where did you see this, where did this question come from?

Reading part of the excerpt (01:31:02 – 01:32:21)

R. That's what you meant?

S. (01:32:25) Yes, yes, and we still haven’t exited our nature here, yet, it’s still Lo Lishma, and he's trying to convince his body, give him excuses “it'll be better off for you”, right, the next world, whatever; so he could stay like this for the rest of his life, what triggers the transition?

R. No if he won't start working with his will to receive he'll never reach equivalence to the Creator. A person works with his will to receive just as the Creator works with the will to bestow and by this they can reach equivalence, identification.

S. I understand correctly that this I convince the body to connect, that's clear, I have to convince it to work, but still I have to try to aim myself to work Lishma and then this inversion really happens.

R. Towards bestowal, so the Creator works simply, He works in bestowal and man has to work in bestowal, only in the force of reception that is revealed in him. 

24. S. (01:34:00) Regarding what he writes about attainment of the spiritual will to receive, that he writes that “we can attain it only in the extent that we believe that there is spirituality”.

R. Yes?

S. So what's the difference between faith and appreciation of the society, is there a connection between the two?

R. The extent that you appreciate the society, you're going to attain the spiritual force in order to help society, in order to save it, yes?

S. So, the force of concession, right, that I can concede, let go of corporeal pleasures, it doesn't come from the society?

R. The force, itself, yes as much as you are incorporating in society, you have the force to concede, but to decide about it you have to do that even before.

S. And then I can relinquish corporeal pleasures because I revealed that they're bad, they're evil?

R. Yes.

S. So the force of revelation, recognition of evil, is also from society?

R. Recognition of evil can come from society but through the Creator, obviously.

S. And then so I have to first appreciate the society and then I see the evil?

R. Again?

S. By appreciating the society.

R. Yes?

S. Then I begin to identify the evil in my attitude towards them, so where’s the trigger now that I see my attitude towards society something bad that I have to relinquish?

R. That, you discover in your work in society.

S I'm asking in order toknow how to hasten it, let's say I'm sitting with my friends, it'll be half an hour and an hour, I can feel them to be more or less important but I don't feel sufficient recognition of evil to relinquish something

R. Yes?

S. In order for the effort that we're doing together in order to recognize the evil, how, where can I obtain here some vessel here?

R. Ask the Creator for forces and then you'll see how much of them you get or not. 

25. S. (01:37:02) I want to continue the previous student’s scrutiny here, we need to advance from the intention to receive to the intention to bestow,l right, so we do all sorts of actions to make an effort, and we stud,y and connection and dissemination, everything our teachers tell us to do. We have a goal to advance equivalence of form with the Creator. But the inner forces in the first stages are still under the intention to receive, whatever we may do; it’s said, seven thousand years, sit, study together and so on, the forces inside are still on the intention to receive and have to switch to the intention to bestow. So what determines if a person will remain stuck in actions of study, connection, dissemination, whre his inner engine is still on an intention to receive, to this he’s disconnected from that and he's given this engine of in order to bestow; it depends on the person, what exactly is depend on him in order to be privileged with this transition, with this exchange from one engine to the other?

R. Only with the help from above, salvation of the Creator, you'll find that in many places; here only the Creator can help.

26. S. (01:38:39) I want to continue the question of the two previous students especially considering that I’m just beginning to hear all these terms and so I understood that it’s a matter of importance, how important it is for me to advance. That the more important it is, right, to that extent advance in discernment because in the beginning it's important for me to receive and I need to get important receiving in order to bestow and build an intention. So it's a matter of how much I'm capable of causing myself to desire to advance to the next stage? And then in the end I both desire and understand that I want, roughly, to be in equivalence of form with the Creator, that’s correct what I’m thinking?

R. More or less, yes.

27. S. (01:40:10) It’s written here that” only if he reached understanding that he is truly in falsehood that he will be able to change his way and go by the path of truth”, so it writes here that “already from this he understands that he’s in falsehood then he can already change his way”. But according to the example of Jerusalem, let’s say that we see that he’s still. Let’s say, ninety-five percent in the aspect of Jerusalem, right, so he change, let’s say, to reach Jerusalem now?

R. No, he can't, how does he know if it's correct or not, based on what?

S. That he already knows what’s falsehood?

R. How does he know?

S. I don’t know, make scrutinies?

R. What scrutinies, is if he hasn't yet arrived?

S. So he hasn't made the correct scrutinies yet?

R. He didn't do any, not that he didn’t do correct scrutinies, he has no scrutinies to do.

S. So what does he have to do now, what’s his work now?

R. To continue, pray.

28. S. (01:41:33) In what is the salvation of the Creator dependent on?

R. The desire of the Creator.

S. What can awaken that desire?

R. Prayer.

S. And when a person is privileged with the salvation of the Creator, he transitioned from the second to the third discernment here?

R. According to the desire of the Creator.

S. Okay, so if he's privileged with the salvation of the Creator, he enters Lishma, the third discernment here?

R. According to the desire of the Creator.

S. So I'm asking what is his reward then here in the third discernment?

R. Whatever the Creator decides.

S. So what does the pereson hear, what does he hear if everything is according to the Creator?

R. To correct and continue, otherwise he falls into the will to receive.  

29. S. (01:42:47) I understood that in the second discernment he's building the will to receive and revelation to true recognition of evil in the will to receive, and seemingly the first condition for this third discernment is complete restrictment, so how do we reach from this discernment of this huge destructive will to receive and somehow reach the decision to reach restriction, why should a person do this?

R. The will to receive reaches restriction from its desire to identify with the Creator. 

30. S. (01:43:45) What does this great testimony of the Creator look like, please, could you say more?

R. It's a revelation that the Creator testifies that he is beyond the correct decision.

S. Can we say this is a reward?

R. Yes, you could say that it's kind of a reward.

S. And what is the difference to world religions?

R. That all this come to us on the condition that we're doing actions of bestowal, meaning in order to bestow, that our will to receive has no profit here.

S. How do we come together to the same realization, to the same understanding of being in the lie?

R. This is with a few steps, not just in one go, I can't in a single action do two separate actions which are even contradictory to one another, to some extent, and reach the desired result, this is a few actions, consecutive actions that we need to do, we’ll learn about it. 

31. S. (01:46:33) Being in this testimony, this clear sign, what you said, it's an identification of Dvekut and equivalence of form, how can we move. Let’s say, from this state to receive in order to bestow, what is needed to go from here to there if we have this testimony, what do we do with it? 

R. We’ll get even more strength from above, forces of bestowal, and then we will ask to have opportunities to receive in order to bestow, that's how it works.

S. Once. let’s say, in receiving in order to bestow, how can we stay in a state of bestowal and receive pleasure, and that the Creator receives pleasure, how can we stay in this state?

R. Why can't the Creator receive pleasure if we're in the vessels of bestow, the Creator receives pleasure every time we are satisfied from our state that we are in Him.

S. And who brings us this force that we can keep ourselves, let’s say, in this giving each other pleasure, how can we hold this state?

R. I didn't really understand?

S. How can we hold the state of giving each other pleasure?

R. That we feel that by that we are giving pleasures to the Creator and when we succeed, He opens more possibilities for us to receive in order to bestow and this is what leads us forward. 

32. S. (01:49:35) Can we increase our spiritual will to receive, is it a conscious discernment?

R. The spiritual will to receive is, yes it's conscious, that's what we reach; I have nothing more to add, that's what we reach.

33. S. (01:50:16) What criteria do we really have in order to receive in order to make decisions in the group, how can we find in our work in the ten, decisions that will bring us closer to the truth, how can we know in this work what's the path to the truth?

R. Through the ten, all the scrutiny is within the ten, and that before I enter the ten I cannot determine anything, even if it's clear to me that this is what I needs to be, it could be completely, completely false. When I enter the ten and then I scrutinize together with them what is true and what is false and I go according to the truth of the ten. 

S. If possible to emphasize, he was asking in cases when there are different opinions in the ten?

R. In the case of different opinions it means that they are not yet entering in order to bestow, then it's a problem, you need to do prior scrutinies.

S. Are there criteria to scrutinize this ahead of time in the ten, that was what he was asking

R. That's not for now, I don’t know what to say.

34. S. (01:52:08) The spiritual will to receive seems to be indefinite, does that mean we have to agree to work on corrections forever, indefinitely and enjoy it?

R. We need to agree to everything only to not separate from the Creator, meaning through the ten we want to be directed to Him and no matter what, we need to be aimed and expecting only that connection through the ten to the Creator.

35. S. (01:53:21) And the third phase there’s a question that from “self-love he doesn't yearn for it, to reach equivalence of form” and now he wants to keep the will of the Creator, to do good to His created beings”, so there's a contradiction here between his desire to the Creator's desire or he does he no longer have his desire?

R. His desire and the Creator's desire become as one.

36. S. (01:53:59) What exactly is the correction of creation?

R. The correction of creation is that all of creation from the state that it is opposite from the Creator reaches a state that it is similar to the Creator.

37. S. (01:54:32) Just like when there is a diagnosis of the doctor to recognize the disease then how can we in our ten, how can we identify that our actions are to receive an order to receive and turn them to receive in order to bestow?

R. Just to continue and then we will scrutinize it over the course of the work’; then we will begin to feel my desires, my intentions, are they in an intention to receive or are they an intention to bestow, only over time.

38. S. (01:55:58) In the transition from the third to fourth phase, are we supposed to want to receive pleasure from bestowal?

R. We do receive pleasure from bestowal but this pleasure in this that we bestow to the Creator.

S. Yes, pleasure from bestowal to the Creator, receive in order to bestow, it's receiving pleasure from bestowal?

R. Yes.

S. And should we want to receive this pleasure from the Creator or from the group, from the society?

R. Through the society, great discernments!

39. S. (01:56:57) He writes here about a means and “that's why they're not able to come to Lishma because Lishma is called ‘truth’ and Lo Lishma is called false and there needs to be an intermediate between truth and false”, is this transition, it's what, transition from vegetative to animate, what is this, is it a Parsa, what is it?

R. It's already above Parsa.