Part 2:
1. R. (00:17) Look at what the subtitle Baal HaSulam gives to the article. He’s very serious: an empirical scientific research about the necessity of, by what, about the necessity, the commitment, the obligation of work in the Creator – of performing actions where the upper force of nature obliges us to do so.
2. R. (01:41) Well, this will become clearer to us once we go through the article but this is a very important article. Meaning from this, it’s also called this way – the Peace – something we used to relate to in the very light matter but it is actually to the contrary, this is actually the most important topic in the most needed subject and the most relevant one. And we will see how we are truly before this aspect of peace. We are not capable of accepting it, receiving it and this is why all our problems stem from there. All the problems: the whole third world, and fourth world war, all of that is possible only because we do not understand the concept of peace.
3. R. (05:50) Meaning in this article he wants to show us that we must perform special actions, in thought and in our desire and in action – what actions, I do not know. But that we must do on behalf of nature these actions which we usually do not do. And these actions are actions of connection. Nearing one another against our desire; we are doing action here against our desire – once in a while – so what is the problem? According to my desire, I would lie down all day, that’s it, but I have to get up and work and so on. Meaning, what is the problem here? The problem is that here I need to work against my desire in connecting to people, in annulling my ego and that is the problem. Okay, so we will see why nature obliges us and how much it obliges us.
4. R (09:15) When we hear the reader, we have to try to incorporate into what we are hearing, into the words of the Baal HaSulam and connect through them, that is our work now. As much as we all want to feel what’s written and, together to feel it together, that is what is important. I'm not reading information here - it is not so important to me what is written, it is more important to me as much as I connect to us reading together with the friends and with Baal HaSulam, and with the Creator that awakened him to write this. And then I already make a spiritual action in the lesson, an active action that works on me and on my friends to build one vessel and in it, reveal what we are actually learning here, which is spiritual actions – that we will reveal them.
5. R. (12:35) For now, I don’t see any questions. We don't have philosophers here, I guess. That’s not important to them, they just want quick short sentences about work in the Creator.
6. S (12:51) I’m trying to understand if that subtitle, he writes – the obligation of the service of the Creator – if it's so obligated, why do we not work with this to start with? Why do we not work according to the laws of nature?
R. We would be like to still, vegetative, and animate. Our degree, the speaking level, that … we ourselves have to know where the laws come from – who's above our nature, in what nature is He, Himself, to know Him – and make of ourselves something that resembles Him. We have a completely different role here.
S. I understand that we need that oppositeness to get there but he says there at the end of the first part, “that his servitude is enabled and turns out from a simple, practical way.” Meaning that it should be clear to everyone that we must serve the Creator and work in this Providence.
R. No if the Creator were revealed we wouldn't have a problem.
S. Not in a disclosed way, he says that it’s clear that we have to work for Him, not that the Creator is revealed.
R. What does it mean to work for the Creator?
S. Maybe that’s what I don’t understand: what does Baal HaSulam say that is so clear and so noted that if one looks at nature it is so clear that we need to serve the Creator?
R. That we need to know nature, that it is above us and we need to know how we come close to it and to identify with it.
S. Here too, from what he says, “that as much as a person emerges to the light of the world, he only has problems and that all he can only identify in reality.” How can you even identify that there's even a Creator who's with Providence here?
R. We are not turning to that created being that was just created, we're talking about wise people that went through generations, and they had a question of ‘why,’ ‘for what,’ ‘why is this life so difficult and coming down on us in such a way,’ ‘why are we the wise ones, the complex ones made from all forms of nature suffering more than everybody’? And that is what brought them into research and from this, all kinds of different approaches developed towards nature they discovered that it’s a special force that is performing this on purpose in order to bring us conditions to rise above ourselves; and then to be above all of reality. And that too we need to attain on our own and to get better at it.
S. Meaning he's already turning to these sophisticated people who have a discernment of this being oppositeness?
R. The rest are like beasts, they have not reached such a development that is important to them. Our desire is to know our King, we want to know the Creator, we want to feel and understand Him, to be in contact with Him in all kinds of degrees – there's also four degrees – that’s what we want, that is why we are drawn through it and we discover it. The rest, it is not important to them, that is why I, instead of research true research, they engage in research that is false because they want to discover it in their vessels – the spiritual world, the spiritual force – they are not able to because then they do not have contact with the Creator, so to depict the Creator without contact with Him is philosophy.
S. And as long as we are not in the spiritual degree, what is the difference between our study from other researchers, other studies?
R. In the directions, through what am I advancing? Here I’m advancing through advice of Kabbalists or advice of a philosopher, let’s say that’s the difference. And that is the question: as much as a person with his point on the heart, is emphasized, revealed, and then except for the wisdom of Kabbalah, he cannot be taken anything except for it. Or he can exchange it with all kinds of philosophies, beliefs, all kinds of tricks. And according to that, all of humanity is also divided into many kinds.
7. S. (18:20) In the article, Baal HaSulam writes (background beeping)
R. I cannot hear anything of what you're saying, nothing except for noise.
8. S. (18:45) Most of humanity does not even engage in this question, even intellectual people. If you raise a question because a person is helpless relative to it, then he'd rather not engage in it?
R. If man would know that there is an answer, many more people would start scrutinizing the truth because a person doesn't have a greater question of what he is living for and what goal he can reach through his life.
S. But even educated people, you cannot even put up the question because the lack of the answer immediately shuts a person off and he feels threatened by it; and then it’s like there's no way to penetrate him. The question itself is so threatening, so challenging?
R. Wait, a person is living and he is told that you can understand the essence of life, the next world, who is managing him, in what direction, in every moment he is revolving in, to the force that is managing him. A person who is alive doesn't want to know this? He wants to know it.
S. He is not capable of letting go of what he has in order to hear it?
R. He doesn’t have to leave anything, nobody’s telling him to go to a monastery, or go on a hunger-strike or whatever, nothing.
S. But he still doesn't allow himself to hear this, you see that he’s simply blocked, like he put some iron shield before him and he doesn't want to touch it, and doesn't want to challenge himself with that question?
R. Because we are not explaining enough that this question is the question of his life, the question of our life. If we do not know what we exist for, then what should we exist for? We should just clog your mind, watch some kind of a movie or take a pill, and in that, let's finish with a true reality. I understand that it could be good for someone because then you disconnect yourself – whatever will be, will be – after me it's not important for me. But if we still suffer in our life and the Creator doesn't let us grow and constantly increases our suffering more and more, so it is worth knowing what we are alive for and how we can make this life, also here and now, different, good and also after we leave this world.
S. With that a person it's so logical a request on one hand but on the other hand, a person doesn't want to hear what to hear. It’s like it’s good with him, all the problems he has, and he’s not willing?
R. You’re seeing it on a person who doesn't want to hear because he didn’t hear yet. That's why you can’t say whether he wants it or not. In order to know that he doesn’t want it, he still has to hear about it, so the problem is in our approach – how we open the abilities before him, that is something completely different.
S. How?
R. How is the question? You cannot say a person doesn't want to hear. Because he is living a life, he can’t get rid of it, even if he dies so he goes into a different reality and still here we need to try to come up to a person and explain it to him – in a simple way – how you can change this life for eternity, that we raise ourselves above time and place. But just not wanting to hear at all is a lack of your approach – that is the lack of your approach.
S. I see that we are trying to explain in many ways?
R. I'm not saying that you are not trying, I'm just saying that our approach is still not right. How to find it? I also do not know. We have to try more and more. Then it will be revealed to us but I don't think we should raise our hands and give up and say, “we do not want to hear about it, we're closing our business,” because we are obligated by those Kabbalists and we understand from the general framework of the soul of Adam HaRishon that we must be concerned for everybody, especially the last generation. We have to be concerned for everyone that does not know what creation is and what the purpose of creation is, and what a person's obligation is and how to participate in it.
S. You can really feel the concern of the friends for everyone – you see the friends are crying, they want to be able to pass on the message to the people who are precious to them, to their society – and still we cannot give birth to an explanation, it really hurts?
R. I'm listening to you crying for 15 minutes that we can't, okay I heard it, enough! Okay, so we do not have an explanation, it doesn't mean that we should stop and not search and leave our work alone. There's one thing and there's a second thing. I have a baby, God forbid if it's sick, and I don't have medicine right now, but I'm constantly searching for something.
9. S. (25:23) Can you explain the meaning of the “kid’ mentioned at the beginning of the article?
R. The small child is humanity that is on the degree of man, Adam, will be able to rise above all the degrees of nature and be as an adult towards all of nature and towards the upper force as smaller through Him; and in this way, to be the connecting part between the Creator and all parts of nature, all the created beings. That is an allegory that we have such an expression of the whole system that is supposed to be revealed in Gmar Tikkun.
10. S. (26:39) We want to discover life. It turns out that there's no such thing as death.
R. We need to discover this in our spiritual development. I do not feel that I can open this secret to you. No, it’s better that you have this question mark, and that it will push you into advancement.
11. S. (27:33) There is an additional problem: not only does a person not want to hear like it was asked before but he thinks that this purpose is pretty clear for him and the purpose is corporeal, let’s say to reach some success, and also there are many other methods including modern techniques?
R. This is what we need to learn about, this is the continuation of this article, you're right. There's a lot of things that are confusing man, and then they can’t even hear about something that belongs to the wisdom of Kabbalah, to the truth, correct.
S. You said lately that all these harsh systems of control, nature will not support all kinds of governmental, harsh methods but there will be a certain softening of this. I didn't quite understand because how could there be a change in the world if we did not come to the recognition of evil?
R. I cannot start explaining your private question now instead of this whole article. How can you ask in such a way? Speak to your friends, scrutinize the words, scrutinize your things and maybe later – but not at such a time. How can you do this? Even the question has to be more clear and from that, you will get the answer. Think about it a lot and talk to the friends, first of all.
12. S. (29:27) Why does a person like Baal HaSulam engage so much with philosophy and do we also need to?
R. It’s not philosophy, it’s the approach towards life. What is philosophy, what is it born from: from people wanting to understand nature, their life and how to organize things. That’s why they engaged in it. It is not like they went to university 10,000 years ago but they, throughout many generations – years and years, even thousands of years in humanity formulated, approach toward nature, the forces of nature, the way you manage them, relation towards man, man to them, and so on. It comes from human nature, that’s how it came out, naturally. It is not some wise guy who came and invented this. That’s why do not call it philosophy, it’s just they wanted to know what nature is and how it affects us, and how we need to relate back to our life.
S. In order to disseminate and also reach the broad public, do we also need to acquire all kinds of different wisdoms?
R. No, but we need to explain why they do not work. That is still something that we have to do and it’s enough for us that we are going to learn here now. Philosophy, for sure in our times, isn’t respected and doesn't work but all these things where in humanity because people were searching for what is the right way to relate to life, to nature around us, in the forces of nature managing us – is there one mechanism here, does it have one purpose. People were thinking about it because they lived in nature and it was important to them to know, to know the system that works on them, first of all. Second, how can I work back on it? Maybe I can change something and so on. from this all the religions and philosophies, all kinds.
S. So how can we today approach people, it seems like there's no value to all kinds of wisdoms and such things?
R. Let's learn, let's learn. Even to explain to people what is in this article, it is already something huge. Try, try to approach them in such a way.
13. S (32:55) Maybe the key for our success can be what Baal HaSulam writes in the beginning of the article, as for the intention in order to bestow to others and the connection with the Creator, that even if we explain everything in the correct way, still the essential, main condition, and obligated one is bestow?
R. You're right, this is what we discovered in the end. But here he wants to approach this problem with a blank page from the beginning without any previous opinion. That is why he approaches this in a gradual way.
14. S (34:07) You said that we need to try to read this article and flow with Baal HaSulam, so first of all, if the Creator is concealed how can you prove that He exists?
R. You can't, only if you scrutinize what the concealment is and why He is concealed; and that this concealment is in us, and that we can change this concealment and bring it to revelation, that we ourselves conceal the Creator.
S. And also in this part that we read right now, it says that part of the realities is under Providence and governed in the perfect, optimal way and part is not under Providence and it’s in chaos. Where is the border between these two parts?
R. It is all in us, it is all in man's perception. It is not that something is happening outside of us, our observation has to be simple: what should be changed in us in order to discover the true reality without our interference? What is it, what is this true reality without us interfering is called Creator. And also Creator that’s already something towards us how this reality is being revealed.
S. I'm trying to read as he writes, he said that some of the Providence is perfect. He gives the example of the baby and relative to that, he says that when you look at it as far as the economy and the other things in existence, there's big disorder. So a simple person when he looks at reality, where does he see perfection, where does he see a mess?
R. He doesn’t see it, we're not speaking about him. We’re not talking about a simple person. Why do you want to bring things that you can solve later on? He is saying that the philosophy and wise people for thousands of years were looking at reality and discussing. They had all kinds of different ideas about it and places where they were speaking about it, and it would keep humanity busy, it kept them busy – they were interested in it – until they came to such decisions and revelations.
S. If there is providence that is perfect, what is this addition that we need to serve? If there’s providence it’s all perfect?
R. The perfect guidance is that it brings you to perfection and in order to bring you to perfection, you have to be incorporated in two parts: the Creator and the created being. And that you'll be able to discern between them and know the difference between the Creator and the created being. You are not even aware as much as your nature is egoistic and gives you obstacles and not letting you ask the correct question. It is closing you and turning you around, and constantly telling you that you are right – not only you but all of us together.
15. S. (37:40) How not to fall into the tricks of philosophers?
R. We're going to learn it from the article. That’s simple.
16. S (37:55) If we go with Baal HaSulam and really try to take all the discernments from the article, there's a sea of discernments but when we are learning with you, everything passes, these discernments don’t float. I am saying this because I got only once altogether to teach this article with the friends and it’s the first time that I felt what Baal HaSulam is trying to do is opening up for me and for years, it was all blocked. How in such study can we be tight with Baal HaSulam so that these discernments float up?
R. I do not know, maybe you’re right and I don’t know how to explain the article. Well, maybe learn from someone else or each one from the other. Read the article a few times, please, tell me what is not clear, but without questions I cannot scrutinize anything here.
S. For example when said, let’s say telling a person what’s the meaning of life, to flood such a question on him, he doesn’t know what you want but Baal HaSulam comes with a different approach and says there’s a paradox in the life of a person where he sees nature as perfect and whole but his life is broken – he's kind of flooding this kind of a question at a person and then from this you can interest a person. There are many such points that he wants people to understand?
R. I’m explaining what is written in a simple formal way and what is written on the page before us. You want to understand more, ask, according to your questions I try to answer as much as I'm able to.
S. Maybe we need to do a preparation before such study with you, to prepare ourselves for it?
R. Please. I do not understand your questions and if I do, it doesn't seem to me that you are not even in the same direction as Baal HaSulam.
17. S. (40:17) Can you summarize from the beginning of the article to what we read, where is Baal HaSulam aiming us in what he wrote, so far?
R. He wants to say that our work, our main work is that all of us will related in a scientific way, in analytical way, analysis, synthesis – that we will start knowing the true reality, which is all between two contradictory forces, reception and bestow – and between these contradictions in Providence that we feel, it’s a must that we feel it because otherwise we will not know between these two contradictions, we will not know the truth. The truth does not belong to the right or the left because it's towards us, the created beings, that the truth is being revealed. That is why we need to come through all this confusion, what he is writing to us about, we can only come to them by scrutiny and scrutiny in the group and each and every one. But it is not that a person will open his ears, clean his ears, open it and hear something and understand. He needs to go through all these things. Today we have the vessels we have developed from all previous generations, for thousands of years of development of humanity. That’s why we are able today to digest this matter of uniting creation. And this is what he wants to get to. The Peace article is that from two contradictory forces working in nature, we get one force which is between which is the Creator. But the plus and minus in nature brings us to the middle line which through it we unite with the Creator.
18 . S. (43:02) Do we need to explain to humanity the reason for the suffering which is opposite to the law that exists in the system?
R. Yes, but we need to know how to do it. What is the meaning of suffering? We need to explain that. Because otherwise what are we here for, we are here to explain the suffering and the reason and how we can get rid of, and from the suffering to rise above it.
19. S. (43:31) Is the question of the purpose of life belonging only to dissemination to those with the points in the heart and also the place where we are talking about the essence of life and eternality to connection?
R. We have to open both and disseminate to the whole world. Today we have nothing to hide. The concealment itself by the will to receive in every person, the will to receive is what conceals from every person what he does not need to know now.
20. S. (44:13) Why in this world people study and exert and for kabbalists the Creator reveals plans like in the matter of the Peace article to Baal HaSulam?
R. No. Baal HaSulam, in order to discover what he is revealing in this article, he makes great great efforts through many years and then it is revealed to him. Except for that, because he came from a special soul. Meaning, he has a special place in the soul of Adam HaRishon, he is a cell in that soul, which is very important, very central, that includes all kinds of thoughts, desires and actions and he invested many forces in it. That is why, how should I say it, he succeeded and he has to explain it to us.
21. S. (45:25) What is the force of Gvura that enables us to breach into spirituality and what are the walls that surround us?
R. We will learn about that. It is not easy to explain. It is complex. Even to explain, what is the force of Gevura.