Part 2:
Baal HaSulam. The Freedom (Ancestral Heritage)
Reader: Before we start reading, we have a few questions that accumulated about the importance of dissemination. Yesterday in the writers meeting you said that it is important for us to develop and to raise importance for dissemination and to be in constant care for dissemination, and when we asked how we’re acting the ten in connection that you said that whoever works in the ten and does not have an inclination towards dissemination is running away, is escaping. Can you maybe arrange the right relationships between the connection in the ten and dissemination, how does that work?
R. I would say that the connection in the ten is a necessary connection, without which we are not in a state or not even capable of doing spiritual work, and connection to dissemination, that is already our work. It has to come after we are connected. Dissemination is good because we are working for the dissemination of the wisdom of Kabbalah, so even if we are individuals, we are not connected, we are not in tens, but we are working to disseminate the wisdom of Kabbalah, already dissemination itself covers everything.
1. S. (02:05) When we read the writings of Baal HaSulam, we also read the Arvut and The Peace, the approach that we had until now was we see how to influence our inner work and the ten, but Baal HaSulam also writes these articles in a way that is also for the broader audiences, you can work with them with wider audiences, so when we study them, how to approach the material, because sometimes we feel the questions are very internal and you cannot ask about dissemination, you know throw off the entire world Kli in a different direction, so how do we approach to study correctly so we’ll be able to take a step forward?
R. I didn’t understand you.
S. The question is, can we have lessons about these articles that are intended for dissemination and the questions will be about this and not inner work.
R. Which articles?
S. The Peace, Freedom, the Arvut. Just because the questions we ask are very internal, they’re about our inner work in our ten, about the inner work of every person, but if the lessons will be aimed towards dissemination then the questions will also lead to that direction and we will be able to open the articles and participate more in the dissemination towards the broader audience.
R. Okay, prepare one such article and we will read it and prepare questions. I am ready.
2. S. (04:05) Regarding the influence of the book of Zohar, you said that the world will feel the influence of the Book of Zohar but it seems we will have to go out to the world in a clearer way, even though it is enough to study and from that there will be a projection to the world and it will feel that it is necessary to connect, how does that fall into place with the importance of dissemination, is it enough or will we need to make greater efforts?
R. That is a question, it is not a simple question, how can we bring the book of Zohar closer to the world. I think we need to rewrite the introduction to the Book of Zohar in a simpler way like to children, like to the general public. So it will be interesting and attractive and then disseminated in this way, also the Book of Zohar itself, there are so many texts, so many excerpts that attract, that you could see them as, in short, excerpts that are attractive, we need to extract them, wrap them somehow so that they will be even more interesting, and present them, but with a moral in such a way that it will not repel people, and then disseminate them among the general public. Also historically and geographically, the book of Zorah has many things in it that we can use to present before the audience.
3. S. (07:02) Continuing the previous question, it is felt that in its study, that this book is filled with love. It feels that if we do not approach it with the intention to be its conduit, it feels like it is wasted. Is it true that we all have to approach it with that intention to be a conduit that it will spill over to everyone?
R. It is a problem, all of us together come to the Book of Zohar, it requires a very precise connection and how can we do it for the time being? We will work on it and for the future it certainly will be possible.
S. Is it true that we should think that way when they read it?
R. This is correct, you are right about that.
4. S. (08:09) If we have dissemination actions and we have fights or quarrels with friends and it causes hatred should we leave that role?
R. Yes, go do something by yourself instead of working with others.
5. S. (08:38) Today in the writer’s meeting I heard that you expressed sorrow, that we do not have enough sorrow. That we are not acting out of pain or feeling that it is like our children. The question is: how can each and every one of us feel greater pain of not doing enough in dissemination?
R. It is only by reading the Book of Zohar. I have nothing more to say here. We need to look for excerpts from the Book of Zohar that speak about the sorrow of the world, the great loss that may come as a result of lack of connection. There are many and then in this way we will come to the right result; the correct effect.
6. S. (09:53) Yesterday when we heard what you said about dissemination and we spoke about it among many women and there was a lot of concern. You explained that according to what we heard how much this spirit of dissemination existed in all Kabbalists and you as well and how we lack this and you said that if you won’t be then there is no one who will continue this, it made us feel like heartbreak even you, could say. What needs to happen in order to insert in us, the spirit that will be engraved in us, like you?
R. I hope that you will grow stronger and understand that only the connection between you, you can exist and this will give you a level of connection, the understanding of connection and contact with the Creator and everything will work itself out.
S. I do not understand through your question. Does that mean that dissemination, through the content or our connection?
R. Both from the connection between you when you write the disseminate externally.
S. When we talked about dissemination, what exactly do you envision?
R. I envision what we think and what we feel becomes known and felt among the general public.
7. S. (11:40) For years I hear that you are not satisfied of how we disseminate. Every time it comes in a different form, maybe you can describe once how you think the ideal way is or what you would want Bnei Baruch in all of the world, in Israel, to behave ideally. What is the ideal group that will disseminate and then you will say these are my children, they're doing a good job?
R. I do not think that it is possible. There is always a gap between what is desired and what is present. I don't think that what you're doing is such a bad job but rather the question is: how much after each one is doing something he has a feeling that he hasn't fully exhausted himself completely, his compatibilities, that’s the question.
8. R. (13:04) Let's return to our material.
Reading the Freedom (13:10) from heading, “Ancestral Heritage”. “All the details of the pictures..”
9. S. (18:00) Who are the same that give birth, who are they?
R. Your qualities that come within and from without, from the outside from a higher degree and from within from your qualities.
S. He's talking about a sequence of forefathers?
R. Yes. a chain that comes to us from the upper root, our spiritual root, that connects to our current corporeal root that is coming out right now and how both of them work on us and give birth to new states.
S. He's talking about a chain of thousands, so who is part of this chain?
R. You don't understand that it's thousands, all the Reshimot that you have from past generations that developed your will to receive and everything that is attached to it and this accompanies you to the state.
S. And why is it unique to every person?
R. Because each one has its own root and in his root he's already separated from the others and he develops individually.
S. Why is it that way, why does the spiritual root, why does it need to be different from every person?
R. It comes to us from the shattering.
S. What's the role of it, not where it comes from, why?
R. Because otherwise we won't get to the scrutiny of the entire system of Adam HaRishon; of the entire desire.
S. We spoke in the first part of the lesson about the upper AVI. What's the difference between the chain of progenitors to reaching the upper AVI that are taking care of us?
R. I don't understand, the upper AVI are Hochma and Bina who are in our spiritual system and they take care of us, what else?
S. In comparison to this chain of ancestors he calls the progenitors. What's the difference?
R. Also in them corporeally there is an influence by the upper force, the upper forces influences them and we are a result of these two systems.
S. Does a person's development in every moment depend on the same Reshimot or that upper AVI?
R. The upper AVI activates the system but the chain of Reshimot is the one who's doing the work. That is what is influenced and that is how we, accordingly are born and developed.
S. And if it's all spiritual Reshimot, why isn’t there a warning to maintain the individuality and not to blur it. If it's spiritual then how can society ruin it?
R. There's no disconnect between the spiritual and the corporeal the way you described it, there is a mutual influence here, corporeality over spirituality and spirituality over corporeality, and we can detect it somehow, and even have some influence on it. Even in our lives, Kabbalists say we need to do various corporeal actions because that also influences our spiritual system.
S. If I understand, we learned that spirituality activates corporeality, am I right? In order of sequences from above downwards, so how can a corporeal body influence spirituality?
R. From below up.
S. How can it be, it's not the spiritual that activates the corporeal?
R. The corporeal system is activated by the spiritual system, from above down, and the spiritual system is activated by the corporeal system from below up. Otherwise we cannot influence our destiny and any correction.
S. I understand the only influence is the speed of the revelation of the Reshimot but not that we can actually change anything in this development other than the speed?
R. What is the speed and what is so important about the speed. That’s not in another million years.
S. Shouldn't we try to reach the Gmar Tikkun as quickly as possible? What does it mean another million years?
R. No, what's important to us is to approach the Gmar Tikkun by our own efforts.
S. What's the whole thing of Achishena, in its due time or an accelerated path?
R. This is a difference of which systems influence us.
10. S. (23:58) In this part we read, I'd like to further scrutinize when he says here, like brothers and sisters that are part of a chain of ancestors but they have different qualities, they may have similar qualities: why does this happen?
R.There's nothing, no connection between brothers and sisters but siblings and spirituality there's no connection between them.
S. But it's some kind of something hereditary that we learn here, something similar so why is there such a difference?
R. What do you see that is so similar?
S. I'm talking about like a brother and sister.
R. I'm talking about progenitors, there's no ramifications in spirituality.
S. Why?
R. What mutual heritage it's not spiritual, it's corporeal. They can be similar to one another externally but internally, not, necessarily not.
S. Somehow it gets mixed up or…
R. You don't need to combine spirituality and corporeality.
11. S. (26:05) Maybe we can ask the reader to read the last part. He explains it but it's really unclear. Maybe, it's a short one. Maybe can we discuss it because he summarizes everything he wrote here, can we ask him to read?
Reading Paragraph. (26:33) “ Now we have found the door..”
12. S. (27:18) What's the connection between ancestral heritage and the matter of selfishness?
R. You see he's not opening it, he's probably going to explain further down
S. He writes that the reasoning of receiving the Torah is liberation from the angel of death, so how is that connected to ancestral heritage and this is one work and this is the other kind of work?
R. He's not explaining it.
S. He's not explaining it?
R. Not here.
S. But there is a connection?
R. Yes.
S. What is that connection between the privilege of the forefathers?
R. Where do you see the connection?
S. Let me read it again.
R. What is the connection?
S. Exactly, what is the connection between the forefathers and the freedom from the angel of death?
R. It's written somewhere.
S. He writes it here in this paragraph.
R. I understand, he just doesn't hear it.
13. S. (29:30) I'd like to ask about the connection between the uniqueness of an individual and being included with the others to form something new and I think it also is related to what we spoke about before in dissemination and we see that when a group of friends get together and do something together in dissemination, from annulment, from the process that you taught us how to do. There are always wonderful and beautiful things that touch the hearts of the audience and then something is formed and there's some difficulty in this process and someone who's very creative takes this and leads an area and the rest leave and go somewhere else and this happens every time anew and every time we fail in that too.
In that ability to annul and to each one bring his own to create something new because these things always succeed. Why do we always talk about annulment in our mutual work, speak about in the ten but in dissemination I feel that we fail every time in that point. I feel that it is a great flaw in our dissemination?
R. Right, because we don't want to annul towards each other and bring all of our efforts into one basket that from this mutual basket we will disseminate to the entire world.
S. What can we do, it's not one day or two, it's years, it feels like this is our stop?
R. It is a stop right, the problem is that we don't understand how important this is and this builds our good future. Whatever will be, we will advance.
14. S. (31:04) Why each individual should preserve the sum total of his essence of his spiritual history?
R. Because this guarantees that he will develop and that he realizes his purpose.
15. S. (31:46) Is it true that the Ari is a spiritual descendant of Baal HaSulam? When I look at Baal HaSulam and Rabash it seems like a spiritual father and son and also corporeal father and son?
R. This cannot be explained. I don't think it's correct to look at it this way. There's no meaning to it really. There's no meaning to it at all in which way they connected physically in corporeality, there is nothing.
16. S. (32:41) The root of our souls, is that the place that belongs to the original vessel and is it revealed and exposed when we connect to that root?
R. Yes, we must reveal our true root in the system of Adam HaRishon.
17. S. (33:19) How to maintain the unique individual personality?
R. Think how to help everyone else, that's how you can keep your own personality, you can develop that specifically.
Reading: Pg 437 (33:57) “First we must understand that although the selfishness..”
18. S. (42:27) Man typically identifies with different forms of desires that pass through him but what is the person and what is his uniqueness and where is it?
R. Certain desire that no one else has other than him.
S. What is that special desire?
R. It's towards a special part of the light that comes from the Creator.
S. How can a simple person who understands that he wants to find his uniqueness among these forces? How to do it?
R. To yearn towards the Creator and to gradually solve that question of what exactly is the Creator pulling him to, from wanting to try to be similar to the Creator and everything.
S. How can the person off the street if we could explain to him how could he find something interesting in the Creator?
R. To aspire to the Creator, to do everything that they want, meaning love the other as thyself.
S. This attitude towards the other can he find himself there and realize Him
R. Yes, he will definitely find himself that way.
19. S. (44:24) According to the example of the appetite when the appetite disappears after eating in our work according to this example of eating, a peak moment is when I see that the table is set and I have an appetite and this is a great moment and later on the appetite decreases and it's like that in our work apparently. Now I'm going to get something and I build a prayer and I check my desires and I will get something as a response, in response . Can we yearn to be in such a state?
R. When you start receiving, you determine what you will fulfill and what you did not. That's why there is an order and a sequence of actions here, one action can disturb the other, can cover it up and if this action is not for bestowal then they cancel one another. They disturb each other and if they are aimed towards bestowal when you understand clearly that you gradually fulfill the Creator than these actions they are all advanced in one direction and they raise you.
20. S. (46:07) According to the previous question, this 'I" that is clarified I have to assemble it from the states that we are building in our connections together from the deficiencies of the friends? I have to assemble our 'I'.
R. Of course.
21. S. (46:40) You said just now that each one yearns to return to the light that comes from the Creator is a special light for each one?
R. Yes.
22. S. (47:00) You keep reminding us that we need to come closer between us during the Zohar and in general and I remember many many years ago there was in Bnei Baruch there are 17 bullet points in the rules of the workshop and I said, wow if we can do it it will be the end of correction, it's genius. I went and I laminated it and put it on the table but I sent it to our friends that there are 17 bullet points that are called 'the rules of the workshop". Everything is written there, how we can be one man and one heart.
R. Great, send it to me as well.
23. S. (47:49) He says that because the force does not exist in reality but only to the extent that it's revealed in the action. The question, when we read the Zohar it means that this force is not in our reality? Then he says 'the action itself is the revelation'? The question is reading in the Zohar that's a subject that doesn't exist in reality?
R. Because we are doing it, it is not that it exists.
S. What does it mean that we do it?
R. We activate our desire and want to receive some form of fulfillment from The Book of Zohar.
S. He says that reading in the Zohar brings connection but also brings about the revelation of evil, is that correct?
R. It's possible.
S. Reading in the Zohar makes us reveal our evil?
R. Yes, the Torah is also the source of evil and the source goodness
S. So if we read the Zohar and reveal the evil but is that helpful or does that create a negative effect?
R. No, this also leads towards attaining the goal but maybe slower.
S. Can we rise above this revelation of evil or do we need to have it in the system?
R. It has to be, you cannot have good without bad.
24. S. (49:30) How do we create spiritual hunger?
R. Rav Is an upper, a great one, spiritual is a higher degree than us.
S. He's asking about hunger
R. Rav is upper, He's great. A spiritual Rav is that we accept upon ourselves and that we want him to lead us to govern us.
S. Hunger is spiritual hunger?
R. Ah, hunger?
S. The person is hungry?
R. That's what he's saying, rav is spiritual hunger. Spiritual hunger, we need to use it in order to rise, in order to realize it.
S. The question is how to generate this spiritual hunger?
R. That is through a Ten, through envy, honor, and lust we start connecting and learning from each other and start getting a deficiency.
25. S. (51:25) Should the Reshimot be revealed, are the forces working in our thoughts or do they come to be realized in practice?
R. I don't understand. I didn't hear it well.
S. The forces that operate in thought and their actions that are happening in practice, the Reshimot, records they have to be revealed, is just something that happens in practice or and potential?
R. In potential but we need to apply and practice.
26. S. (52:08) According to the example of the will to receive, Baal HaSulam presents an example where the force cannot be revealed without a predicate and if we talk about the force of bestowal, then on what is it revealed?
R. The force of bestowal is revealed in who we bestow to, the one we want to fulfill. who is our guest.
27. S. (53:05) Why did Baal HaSulam write this excerpt? What does he want us to learn from it? In practice or it's an amazing excerpt but what is he telling us?
R. He's telling us that we can do spiritual actions in our world and in practice.
S. The beginning of the excerpt he talks about the thought and then he ends the excerpt with desire. What's the difference between thought and desire? How do we perform his actions? Because he's talking about how the thought that creates the action, and the action creates the desire but he cancels it and it's a little confusing.
R. The thought is a result of the desire and by being consistent in our thought we develop desire. What is the relationship between a thought and a desire? It depends on what you start from. Sometimes a desire comes to us when we look at one another,because there isn't a prior thought. We just receive from others a desire and sometimes it starts from a thought. I get some thought and I delve into it, I invest forces into it ,imagination and I reach a desire. It all depends on the person.
S. What is the imagination?
R. The force of an imagination has to be because there is no relation between a thought and desire.
S. The imagination develops as a result of this force and then it gives birth to the action?
R. Yes, yes imagination develops it.
29. S. (55:27) In Romanian being in the state also means to be able as in yes, we can, the force of thought generates words called a force?
R. No, it's not the same, I can be in thought, in potential, but for now, I can't use it in practice because I don't have the forces. Let's say God forbid, a person is ill, he's lying in bed, and he understands that he cannot get up and do something, so in thought, he's able to do it, but in practice he's not capable. So there's a difference between in action or in theory.
S. Maybe, is the thought generating the action, how is the thought expressed in the action?
R. Does the thought accompany that desire is clothed in the desire and the desire already executes the action, but the thought itself cannot, no. It's just something, it's like a fantasy that through our thoughts we can stabilize worlds and actions, these things are from fairy tales.
S. But we said everything will be clarified in the thought, that it's the most powerful power?
R. That it will be clarified, but not that the thought will determine the action, not that the thought will turn into an action.
S. Why do you need the action, the force of thought is stronger?
R. You are right, but you see how nevertheless, we need the action because only the action, it can testify for a certain thought, if it was correct or not.
30. S. (58:49) Do I understand correctly that we are made up of our ancestral heritage and the biological heredity from our parents, and these are two different things, is there a spiritual connection between these two things, or the spiritual is only the ancestral heritage?
R. It's true that there is nothing other than the spiritual, and the fact that we divide the spiritual and corporeal, it's good for us to do that, in order to sometimes respond from this or that, there's no corporeality, it's all spirituality.
S. But in our daily lives we feel more committed to our biological hereditary and we feel less our heritage that brought us here, we need to develop greater feeling towards our heritage?
R. Yes.
S. And this will be a spiritual action?
R. Yes.
31. S. (01:00:52) Are the ancestors previous incarnations of my soul that took steps on the path to correction?
R. Yes.
32. S. (01:01:13) In the previous paragraph it says each one acquired the spiritual properties of his progenitors, what is it?
R. Whatever he has in the Kli. Whatever he has in the Kli.