Talks with Dr. Michael Laitman

A New life

Talks on the Family Unit

Episode #212

July 21, 2013

Oren: Hello, thank you for being with us. We are here in the New Life educational series with Dr. Michael Laitman. Hello, Dr. Laitman.

Dr. Laitman: Hello, everyone.

Oren: Hello, Nitzah Mazos.

Nitzah: Hello.

Oren: We want you to be with us and together we will learn from Dr. Laitman how to build our lives in a new way, and within a new life. And we will learn to relate to everyone around us in a new way and they will relate to us in a new way as well. We will then start to build this new and better connected world between us that we are happy to wake up to in the morning. And we can do this in the most practical manner. Each time, we look into a different system of connection that we have in our lives and we are more closely examining it. We are focusing in on it and trying to learn how to behave in a new way inside it. From there, we make conclusions and gain insights for all parts of our lives, for all relationships in our lives. Our focus in this new topic today is the family unit. We are focused on how to go through the natural transitions within it in a good manner and that everyone will be allowed to learn this. Nitzah, please start the discussion.

Nitzah: So now we are on a subject that deals with change and even with crisis. The subject that we want to open up today is actually the expansion of the family unit. Until now there was a situation of parents and one child and now the parents are actually planning to expand the family. They are brining another child into the world. And we want to begin prepare the first child for the fact that the family or the attention that has been focused only on him and he was the center of everything, and suddenly the family is now soon going to receive another baby into the family. So, how do we properly prepare the first child? From what stage do we begin? How can we do it so that this entire process will build better connections in the family and take the family to an even better connection?

Dr. Laitman: That depends on the age of the first child. If it is up to the age of four, five, and possible older, than we do not need to explain to him where a baby comes from. Like a cat, a dog or each and every other animal, we also have an addition to the family. First of all, it is growing within the mother, like in a cat. It is growing in her tummy and then they take him out and it is on its own. The addition comes. So we need to speak to him about this.

He needs to know about this, feel that it will happen soon, that we are dealing with it and he is also dealing with it, preparing himself. He needs to feel that he is concerned, that he is part of the family, truly part of the family, not somebody that is just coming to compete with him, but that the new baby is another addition to the family that also adds to him, the other child. The family receives an upgrade, a good addition to the entire family. When you speak to him about it, explain to him how good it is, how it is good for everyone.

He does not understand his mother’s or his parents’ feelings they will have for the baby, and that the baby is coming soon, but he needs to accept it in the manner that everyone is happy. He needs to see that everyone is happen and he should also be happy. Everyone is concerned about it and he should also be concerned. We need to show him that these things are not on his account, but it is also going to enrich him. And this is how it will come.

Apart from that, we need to make sure he feels completion, so that if his mother will not be next to him all the time, in the hospital, etc. and day and night next to the new baby, he needs to know that in that he is not getting less attention, but he is rather being included in all these things. And as much as everyone can contribute, he will also contribute.

It really depends on how you build this system of relationships between everyone and if the term “family” is strengthened even more and not that he is wandering around that little thing that was born, but rather he is not harmed by it. It is very important to show him how important he is, how great, how responsible, how much we encourage him, how much we appreciate that he is also participating in everything. This is done to such an extent that afterwards, he himself will also want to play with the new baby and wants to feel himself part of the people caring for the baby.

Nitzah: From what age is this possible?

Dr. Laitman: I think at any age it is possible. You can say 3, of course, or even less than 3. By the age of 2, he already understands what to do and what to feel, how to explain to Mommy, how to be the buffer between him and the baby. It is not a problem, but it really depends, from the parents’ side, how much they maintain the framework of the family. We are all a family, we are all together, and this feeling of togetherness will remain in the child, whether he is three of four or more. That he will see in this, a family addition.

Nitzah: How do we really give him this feeling of together? Let us say it is a 3-year-old child. How do I as a mother, convey it to the child, not with pressure, but very, very gently. What does that mean?

Dr. Laitman: What does it mean? We need to show it to him. Once upon a time, the animal kingdom was very close to people: dogs, cats, maybe even chickens and other things. People used to live closer to them. Such as a person who grew up in the settlement of Moshav.

Oren: My Grandfather had chickens and cats on his farm and he used to enjoy working around them. Of course there was process.

So what do I do with it today when I live in an apartment? I do not know about today, as most of the people do not live in a village.

Nitzah: Can I give an example of myself? When I was a child I lived in the city, but my Grandfather worked at the zoo. I really liked going to the zoo. I think kids really love going to the zoo. They learn a lot from them.

Oren: Okay, so let us go back to practicality. I think the goal is to show in the nature that there is expansion, an addition. So, if I do not live in a settlement and I do not have cows etc. Nowadays we do not have these things.

Dr. Laitman: The expansion of a family is a natural thing. Maybe they can watch nature films. For a child, there is no difference between animals and people. For him it is the living world. He does not really differentiate between the sociological and social. It is all animals to him.

Oren: This process of showing him that it is a natural thing in nature, that there is more offspring coming and that the family is expanding; when do we start working on this? Let us say she is pregnant first month, second month. Where do we start?

Dr. Laitman: What is the problem with starting? Start right away. He does not know that it is nine months.

Oren: That is what I want to understand. What are the goals that I have to achieve?

Dr. Laitman: You explain to him how it happens in nature. That you see a cat is pregnant and soon little kitties will come out of her tummy. This you can see in the street everywhere. That is it. And in ducks, we do not see it so much. You can take him to the zoo. You also see big people, little people. Explain this whole process to him, that it is natural and that in happens in every family.

Of course, from one thing to the other you are teaching him. And that we are also like that and where it comes from and why it comes. Why precisely it is in these periods and not those periods. He needs to know that it is sometimes that is carrying on, it happens; it is life, just like we talk. It comes from above. We need to accept it, we need to treat him. He needs to see it as a natural process, there is nothing to resist here. There is no choice, there are no options. Rather, this is life. In this phenomenon we are rolling on, we are carrying on.

Nitzah: You said the expansion of the family is a natural thing and maybe I want to pass on a message that expansion enriches him and is good. How do I convey this to a child?

Dr. Laitman: If you give him an example from the animal kingdom, it is enough. Kids learn laws. He sees that is how it is. He sees that that is how it happens in the world, and then he has no problem. He absorbs it, accepts it, and it becomes his way of looking at things. That is it.

Oren: Hang on. You emphasized that our goal as parents is to bring him to a place where he will not be afraid of not having enough attention or that his status will be less in the family.

Dr. Laitman: We are all getting this addition along with him. It is an addition coming from nature. After a certain amount of time another baby comes into the family and we need to look after him, as if it fell from above in a natural manner. Just like with men, animals are same as us. Therefore, we need to treat him, and in this manner, we need to give him attention, etc. It is not something against him, but rather, nature is obligating us to do this. This is life. The more natural you convey it, and then he will also accept it in the natural manner. We are all obligated. That is it. It is a law.

Nitzah: You also said to us that it is very nice. It is not just the mother and father’s, it is ours as a family.

Dr. Laitman: He is the member of the family. Beforehand, he needs to feel that the entire education of the family is that he is the member of the family and that we all are responsible: mutual responsibility and support towards one another. He sees a triangle, but now it will not be a triangle, but rather a square.

Oren: I do not really feel. We are the parents, we are smart, we know, and we understand. And he is a child.

Dr. Laitman: We do not do it like that, we do not convey that we are really the parents and he is the child. We relate to him like a little brother.

Oren: Whose brother?

Dr. Laitman: That he is like our little brother or child. If you want him to learn, you should be like a parent towards the little one, but slightly bigger than him, slightly. You are like his big brother, but you are slightly more than him. Gradually, he receives this manner from you. He does not understand that you are 30 and that he is 2 or 3, but rather, he will understand you if you are a year older than him.

Nitzah: What is the significance in real life?

Dr. Laitman: You need to educate a child in his manner, according to his height. So it is as if all of us are almost as one. We are very close to him, according to our opinions, behavior, and according to all these things. We are in a family. Of course we are more than him, but just slightly. He understands us in this way more, he feels us more, consults with us. We speak with him, almost as an equal.

Oren: Okay.

Dr. Laitman: This ability to decide things, take things upon himself. We are conveying to him, truly a role as a member of the family.

Oren: This we are trying to do it from the day he was born. This is the atmosphere we are trying to create in the house as much as possible in accordance with his age.

But I want to separate it into stages. Up until now, everything you described we did our best to create this atmosphere. We relate to him like this, not that we are bigger than him. That is what we try to create up to today. Let us say we succeeded to a certain extent, and now we know that she is pregnant and soon the family is going to expand. So, let us say we managed to create this atmosphere. So now when we are inside it, how are we are all preparing?

Dr. Laitman: We are talking about it. We are going together to buy something, and we also buy something for him and also something for the one that is going to be born. We talk about him and also about the baby. Let us say we have someone has to come to our house as a visitor. We prepare for him as to where he is going to sleep, where he is going to eat. We are going to prepare for him. Let us say a guest comes. It is very simple.

Oren: But you know, a guest has a date when he is coming and a date when he is leaving.

Dr. Laitman: No, it does not matter. It is not important.

Oren: Let us leave that for later.

Dr. Laitman: You are talking from the ego.

Oren: I’ll come with that question after we give birth.

How much can we talk about? It will become something pressuring him.

Dr. Laitman: It has to be around us, but not pressuring him. Like preparations for something that we prepare ourselves. And explain it to him that it happens with others, and take him to a store like that. He himself knows and sees in the yard and in his nursery school. He walks around and everywhere he sees babies. It is like this and like that. There is no problem. That is his world. He is closer to this world than us. He is closer to the world of babies. A little child is closer to the world of babies. Take him where there are kids in the municipality, etc.

Oren: What about the mother’s tummy?

Dr. Laitman: It is like the cat. That is where the baby grows and that is where it comes out of.

Oren: What does it mean for him?

Dr. Laitman: He comes out of Mom’s tummy.

Oren: What kind of relationship does he need to develop to prepare? How does he need to relate to this baby?

Dr. Laitman: It is his brother or sister because it came out of the same tummy. You tell him, “Now your brother or sister is growing like that.”

Oren: A relationship like that?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, you need to explain to him, of course. “What does it mean? I never had a brother. Now you will have a brother.” “You were also like that in my tummy,” his Mommy says to him. “You were also like that inside.”

Oren: And if I do not want it?

Dr. Laitman: Then we need to explain it in a manner that he will understand. Like we said that it is life, that so everyone reaches it. Like a cat gives birth.

Oren: So you are skipping over the stage that he does not want it. You say that it is life, that it is not a matter of desire.

Dr. Laitman: This is the way of nature. This is how it is in everything in which we want him to develop. It is not us. It is not us doing, but rather a gift from above. It is nature doing. Nature is doing it and we are in nature. This is how we need to educate him in general for everything. And what do we say in education, that we should not behave like this or like that. It is similar to religious education where we say that the Creator has said we should do this and this. Therefore, the education is quite steady. And here we also need to say the same thing instead of God, we say nature.

Oren: So this is the way of nature. Soon you will have a brother. So he will not have this reality in his head where he has an ability to control the situation. The parents also do not have any ability to control it. Do we need to speak about it?

Dr. Laitman. No, it is natural. We deserve it and that is it.

Oren: Okay. I understand. This is how we begin.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, yes and in a simple manner. We talk about the cat and women that are pregnant and that is how you got here. You see Mother’s tummy, it looks like there is something in there. You hear something. Suddenly, the baby develops there until it comes out and that is how you came out as well. It is simple.

Oren: Okay, we do that. That is a few months. You said gradually. The months go by, the stomach is getting bigger. Where are we going to go?

Dr. Laitman: He knows the date and everything. He goes with his father and mother to a doctor. The doctor checks him. He sits there and waits as a child and he sees that there are other men sitting there. There were women coming to be checked as to when to take the child out of the tummy and everything.

I remember that my mother used to take me. I used to come to her work. She was a gynecologist and for me, I remember it was very natural, even before I went to school and everything. We would speak about it in the family. There were lots of cases from work. And then I would hear about them. It was very natural for me. I was even shocked to hear at school how kids, other kids, did not really understand the process.

Oren: Not everyone has a mother who is a gynecologist. I mean today it is different. Let us get back to the picture when the mother is going to the doctor for a checkup with her pregnancy. And for the child, does not matter if it is a girl or a boy, right?

Dr. Laitman: No, there is no difference.

Oren: The girl or the boy is going with their father and mother to the checkup.

Dr. Laitman: With a daughter, it is a little bit more sensitive because she is imagining herself as a mother. She does not want to be scared. She will also have to be the same and give birth after she grows up. Very gently, there should be no doubts, scary things, or problems. It has to be light and happy. Like with cats, natural. It is just the doctor and nurse. For a cat, there also is a doctor, a veterinarian, a cat’s doctor. There is no difference. You really need to show how it is natural.

Oren: So let us get into this picture because it is very special and we want to truly involve him. We are going to a checkup, and we have to prepare ourselves for the checkup. How? He is a child.

Dr. Laitman: We say we are going to the doctor to know when we are going to have a new baby and that is it.

Oren: And we are also going to know if everything is okay?

Dr. Laitman: No, no. Do not talk about it. We do not talk about accidents, just when the day is coming. How does the doctor know? The doctor listens, the doctor hears, he checks. He has a ruler or something and he checks and he knows when the special day is coming, the designated day, do not be afraid to explain everything to the child. It comes from nature, because in a natural manner, we also prepare to grasp these things and absorb them in the correct and soft manner. There is no problem with that. Be careful; watch out for TV and computers and all those things and the things that have to do with technology of giving birth, etc. Do not be afraid. These things are from nature.

Oren: So the preparation we did at home: we are taking the mother, she is going to the doctor, and he is going to tell us when the day is going to come when we are going to bring the baby home.

Dr. Laitman: We are not going to bring the baby home. We are going to go with her to the hospital. We are going to take her to the hospital. We are going to come and visit her. And then afterwards, we are going to get her with the baby. Pick her up with the baby.

Oren: Now, when we are waiting... let us say that something is the matter and is getting a checkup and we are in the waiting room. What do I speak about with him, since it is a special situation? It is the same with my son. We are sitting outside and the mother went into the doctor. So explain to us.

Dr. Laitman: First of all it is not a hospital where we are. It is the place where we give birth.

Oren: We are not yet going in to give birth.

Dr. Laitman: It is a place where they check everything. It is not a hospital. What is the emphasis here? It is not a hospital. I go to this house that is called the place where mothers give birth. It is not the place where we go if we are in trouble. We bring flowers, we are happy. It is a maternity hospital, a maternity clinic. The child sees that it is a place of joy. It is very important. So we will also bring flowers. The way you relate to it, you show him that everyone is happy. He learns from examples, after all.

Oren: Who is everyone?

Dr. Laitman: Everyone, meaning the fathers and the children. This is how it should be. And afterward, the mother gives birth and we take the mother and the child home. This is how it should be.

Nitzah: Really what happens in the first days? Let us say he is excited.

Dr. Laitman: We talked about it.

Oren: When do we talk about that?

Dr. Laitman: When it gets closer. In the last month before she gives birth, we talk to what extent the mother will be involved with the new baby. We explain to him how much mother was involved with him. Remember, when you were like this? You do not remember, but we will show him in all kinds of ways, either through a movie or a book that explains breastfeeding and diapers and how they wash the babies, and the little bath. Because he does not understand it, he does not see it in others, even though you can see these things all together. We need to see how much we need to give time to this and how much we need to help. When mother is washing the baby, he will bring her a towel and some cream, etc. You explain all these things to him and that two or three years ago he was in his place.

Oren: You keep mentioning that you were also like that and that that we always did l this with you.

Dr. Laitman; Yes, you have to go back and say everything. These are stages

and he learns life. He learns a process, a natural process and that he also went

through this whole process. What is the nature, apart from this technology?

Imagine that we were living a few thousand years ago in a village or tribe where

there is usually a maternity home and with women there. The women used to go

to this home to give birth, or they went to other women’s homes. It all has been

arranged simply since the beginning of time. And everyone used to help

and support. This is how it was in ancient times. A child grasps this in the correct

manner and there are no questions.

Oren: I wanted to verify. We tell a child, “You were also like that, and we also looked after you like that.” What do you want to get from that?

Dr. Laitman: You want him to agree, to invest in the one that is being born. Not for him to agree. I am teaching him that it is life. It is a process that is called life and we all have to take part in it. And in this manner we go through life. Each one has a role in the beginning, in raising them, and participating. Each one has a role in mutual help, etc.

Oren: Yes, that is why I am including him in all these things. What do you mean mutual help?

Dr. Laitman: I am explaining to him about myself: “You know, Grandma, she is my Mom. Your Grandma is my mother. I once grew in her tummy and once I was a baby and she also took care of me, etc.”

Explain these things to him. You open up a time frame and the relationships between people. He is not looking now at his grandmother, that she just loves him. It is an older woman coming from the side, loves him and spoils him. Usually a grandmother does that more than a mother. No, he is learning the relationships between everyone and how everyone is obligated to one another. What obligation? Obligation in the way that Grandma gave birth to me, and I am looking after you and your other grandmother gave birth to Mommy, and Mommy was also a little baby. Look at the pictures from them. Look, she had a ponytail and a little father, and a little mother, and then they grew up. You explain these things. Where is he going to learn about life?

Oren: To show pictures and everything?

Dr. Laitman: What, you do not have an album?

Oren: With me it is an exception. People usually have pictures. Show him pictures?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, why not?

Nitzah: How does this…?

Dr. Laitman: This places him in the correct state.

Nitzah: Does it also prevent jealousy, because we know that one of the hardships…?

Dr. Laitman: He participates himself. He knows that he is obligated. How it is possible? From where is he going to learn jealousy?

Nitzah: It is like it is a natural emotion.

Dr. Laitman: It is not natural. In a family it cannot be natural.

Nitzah: A family love is natural. Because many times, these are phenomena that exists.

Dr. Laitman: I want to emphasize that jealousy, control, rejection will still be there, but it has to be felt in him as his first negative urges with which he will have to deal and overcome.

Nitzah: But he sees us. Do we talk about these things that are awakening in him?

Dr. Laitman: No, but afterwards, when we have to see it happening, then we begin to explain to him.

Nitzah: Let us say that now the child...

Dr. Laitman: I am so tired, I really need to sleep, but I have no choice, I have to help. And Mommy also says the same thing. in all kinds of examples. And then he begins to understand that the way they participate is also the way in which he needs to participate. And if he brings this other form, this opposite form, then it is not accepted. It gradually has to be a warning, an example, and an education.

Nitzah: So for example, I see in front of my eyes the situation where the baby arrived, and he is already lying in the bed, and let us say there is a boy or a girl and I see that they are starting to be a bit jealous.

Dr. Laitman: Take him as a partner. If it is a girl, than you really have no problem. In a natural manner, she has an urge to help with the baby.

Nitzah: But say, it is a boy that just had another brother being born.

Dr. Laitman: Does not matter. It all depends on the preparation.

Nitzah: Preparation is exactly what we are talking about, which is how to prepare. My question is if I see another child comes to this and there is a feeling. Do I need to speak with him about it? What is the correct work to do with him?

Dr. Laitman: I cannot talk about all these details, but the attitude has to be clear that we see each of them as a part of the family and each according to his age and the situation has to get attention. That is it. And then of course, after this baby is lying down or sleeping and they sleeps many hours, then it is time to give attention to the older child, much more than we gave before. That is it. His father goes with him to the store to buy all kinds of things, and he gives this child ice cream and all kinds of special attention.

Oren: So now there are two paths.

Dr. Laitman: If it is kids, if it is a son with his father, then the father takes him as a partner to be together, they are going to bring supplies, home, etc,. and at the same time he gives him ice cream, he gives him attention, treats him like a big person, as a partner.

Oren: They buy supplies for her?

Dr. Laitman: It does not matter. It is for the little one.

Oren: It will make him upset?

Dr. Laitman; No, they also buy him something on the way, all kinds of things and they treat him like a partner, like a big person. The child is proud of it and he sees that he has a role.

Oren: What does it mean t treat him like a partner? How do I do it?

Dr. Laitman: You go with him to the store like with a friend. You speak to him, you sit and you buy ice cream, you buy him a drink. What is good for him?

You treat him like he was bigger, more independent and more responsible. This makes up for him investing.

Oren: What did you say now?

Dr. Laitman: Of course for each kid, for any investment and effort that he makes, you give him some compensation, some little gift or attention.

Oren: Let us get into this picture. Let us say that I am the father and I take the child outside of the house. Now let us turn this around. Let us look from the child’s side. Up until now, you said to us as parents how to prepare him for this process. And even how to deal with the new process if he comes home and there is a new baby. Let us put us parents on the side, to understand this more.

And let us see how it looks from the child’s eyes. At home there is the mother and the new baby and I am the father and we go out of the house together. Let us say that I am the child. It appears to me that I will have thoughts that, “Wow, this is great, I finally have father to myself. Wow, we are going someplace where the center of attention is not this new child. Finally I have some space.”

Dr. Laitman: No, we always need to feel that we are all four. We are four always, even when the baby is lying in the other room and sleeping 20 hours a day. We are all together. There is no such thing that I am going with my father and that is it. No, we are with the mother and the baby, all of us together. We are not disconnected and we did not escape from the house.

Oren: How do we give him this sensation?

Dr. Laitman: We need to speak about it and in general, it is a feeling that has to be.

Oren: Let us say you are the father and I am the child, the eldest child. Let us say we go outside to buy stuff. What are you talking about with me and what do you talk to me about on the way?

Dr. Laitman: I can talk to you about anything, but the inner feeling has to be that we are together. Now we went out, let us say we are even walking to the store by foot, and we are going to the park, I am buying you ice cream on the way. It is possible that you get on the slide, etc. But we get back to it that at home, we have another part of the family to which we are connected.

Oren: If you see that I am reacting not well to this?

Dr. Laitman: There is no such thing. It is not that now I am suddenly starting to talk this way to you. It is a process that I am putting you through and it is a feeling from the day that you are born that we are family and we were a triangle, and now we are a square.

Oren: But there is no situation of zero and one, black and white. Are there not middle states?

Dr. Laitman: It is feelings. I think these things need to be treated constantly, of course. But at the same time we have no problem.

Oren: You mean it has to be constant? We have to work on it all the time.

Dr. Laitman: Parents have to go through the Integral Education. There is no way around it.

Oren: So let us imagine a situation: you invested, you prepared, you did everything, you are trying with your entire heart to do everything that we studied.

Now let us set up a scenario. You are the father and take me for a walk. According to everything you said and all the procedures, we are trying to do everything that you said. But you feel still there is something. How are you going to deal with it? You are outside with the kid. Do you understand what I am asking you? Now you are in a situation with just the two of you, the father and the child. You are the father outside the house and you are really trying to give this feeling that now there are four of us and all those things. And there are these things that you try and try. How you will deal with it, if at a certain point, you might even feel it, not outside, but in another situation that he still has this feeling that it did not work?

Dr. Laitman: We are giving him more attention than before and he should not feel neglected.

Oren: Why? .

Dr. Laitman: The baby is sleeping 20 hours a day. We can give him more attention. We are not stressing him with making him do stuff around the house. He is used to helping us. Before, we used to obligate him to arrange his toys inside the basket, etc.

Oren: Everything that you described now explains to me why he should not have a negative feeling toward the baby. But I am saying; let us create a scenario, because you are saying it is not zero and one. It is people and there is a spectrum of feelings. How do you deal with the fact, in a situation like this, that you feel that there is something negative coming out in him, inside this process. How you deal with it?

Dr. Laitman: It is a sign that first of all, I did not invest enough in giving him the responsibility as my partner, as a partner in the family. That he is not a baby and a little child, but rather he is a partner in the family. That now it is made up a four members. The second thing is that I appreciate him very much. We all appreciate him very much, that he is the big child. He is the big one. There is a small one and he is the big one. And the big one we that we treat with even more attention, more attitude, and more appreciation. He receives from us more games, more care and attention.

The main thing is that the spirit has to come to us from nature and we all have to behave in this manner. That is it. There is no other way to look at it. We appreciate that he is a partner and that he is helping. Look, let us put it like this. I am asking you simply, the fact that a person is born and after a year or a year and a half, a woman is capable of giving birth to the next child, yes? Even with breast feeding, it would not happen naturally like that, but let us say it is like that. Do you think that in nature it is not rooted in us that we can raise our children correctly? I am sure that we can. Otherwise we would not be sitting with you. We have a natural inclination to treat the big one and small one properly. And also in the small one, there is an ability to get used to a new situation.

Oren: Now we want to get into more depth of how to do it according to nature. That is what we want to verify. We appreciate you very much, because you are the big one. What does that mean?

Dr. Laitman: To give him what he needs for his development. What do I want to say and what I said now? In his natural development, there are already desires and abilities to grasp his life in a new manner, become more disconnected from his mother and father that will give him the ability to deal with the baby that is being born. He will not need his parents to this extent.

Oren: Explain that please.

Dr. Laitman: He already grew up up to the age of 2 and became the big one.

Oren: Yes.

Dr. Laitman: He is already at the age of 2 and busies himself with his games and maybe with friends and with all kinds of things. He has enough things to do to give his mother the ability to disconnect from him and switch to caring for the baby being born. And the mother also does not do this today and then switch to something else tomorrow all of a sudden. We are talking about the process of education.

Oren: We have to get into this more in depth into this. I am very curious. What is the appreciation that the parents need to give to the oldest child? “We appreciate you because you are big, you are helping, and you are the partner.” How do we do this in this natural manner? How I give him...? You said that the fact that the younger one is born, he got an upgrade. Now he is getting appreciation. There is a positive potential. This is important to me to understand this significance and practically, how do I do it? Because previously he wasn’t treated this way since was 1. “We appreciate you because you are the bigger one.”

Dr. Laitman: It does not happen suddenly. Nothing is good if it is sudden. There has to be this preparation in advance and that we are all ready. From the moment we begin talking about the fact that the baby is to be born, we already start relating to him in a more mature manner. The fact that we have a baby and he is in Mommy’s tummy, he is like a family member. This is how we relate to him.

Oren: What does it mean we relate to the older one in a more mature manner?

Dr. Laitman: That he is now also responsible for the family, for everything that has to happen. That we spoke about that he goes to the store to buy all kinds of supplies for the baby being born. That we consult with him about how we are going to build his life, where there will be a place for him, a place for the baby, etc. Do I have to go into such detail?

Oren: Not the details. I am trying to understand a person’s strengths. Now you are the older child, I am the father. “Hello, my dear son, let us go walk around in the house and plan like we do changes in the house. Look at Mommy’s tummy.”

Dr. Laitman: No, you cannot do it like that.

Oren: Just joking. Of course I am exaggerating to sharpen this emotional place.

Dr. Laitman: You have nine months to speak about it.

Oren: “You are taking from me.” Do you not feel you are taken from? You are going to be second place now. “You are good. We love you. But you are the silver medal and somebody else is getting the gold medal” Is this not how the kid is feeling? Is this not a natural feeling inside the child?

Dr. Laitman: I see the Levy family.

Oren: Not the Levi family. You are the older one. Do not you have such feelings like that inside?

Dr. Laitman: I was the older child. I have a brother who is five years younger than me. We went with or father to the hospital to pick him up. They let me hold him in the hospital a little bit. I remember those moments. Then we came home together.

Oren: And since then, you participated.

Dr. Laitman: At the age of five I did not need any special treatment. I had a dog and I used to ride him like a horse.

Oren: Were you jealous of your brother?

Dr. Laitman: What was there to be jealous about? That is above nature. You are above nature.

Oren: Most kids that we see, they are jealous.

Dr. Laitman: What do I need my mother to look after me and what?

Oren: You are the loved one.

Dr. Laitman: I had my own life. I had a yard, a garden and trees, I used to climb trees. I used to play all kinds of games.

Oren: That is not an example. Because, most kids we know in a natural manner, grow up on a computer. Four walls and the computer. Yes. And even if I am not talking about that you say that you had a private house, there is an emotional place in the oldest child. I was one and now we are two. We have to share the cake, the attention, and the hugs. You are saying it is nature. I understand. But you are saying it is a father.

Dr. Laitman: You have months. In a child’s life, it is like 20 years in your life. You have months in which you have to prepare all these things. So go to an Integral Education course and learn. Go through workshops there and you will see how they do it. In a family, it is like we are in a workshop all the time. We are talking all the time.

Oren: What workshop would you do with the oldest child and the parents? A home workshop.

Dr. Laitman: It is all the questions we have imagined for the next situation. The next situation is how to make room in the house for another family member. Now we have a fourth one. Where we going to make room for him, but without hurting anyone? It must be just the opposite: through joy and love. How we will give him a place. What is the best way? What is the best for me? What is the best for everyone, for the family? You give these conditions like a group. It is that you are accepting someone into the group and everyone feels that it is a good addition. And from this good addition that is called preparation for the workshop, we now have a gift from above, a good addition. The baby is coming to us; this new baby. How do we now build our family from four instead of three? The family is all of us together, we all love, we are all connected and are all concerned, each according to his ability. According to his ability he cannot look after the one who is being born. Give a bear or a doll to this fourth one and start doing a workshop with him. What are we doing for him? He is just nothing at the moment.

Oren: According to his ability he cannot yet contribute.

Dr. Laitman: And now we have to complete the things that he is not able to do himself. Like a little child, he is not capable of doing things himself, and things that a father is not being capable of doing himself, and the mother is not capable of doing some things by herself. There are things where everyone needs to give to the family, and in this manner, the family is in perfection, completion.

So first of all, we want equality, each according to his ability toward love, toward connection. And from there, let us decide what we going to do with him so that he will feel good. How can we do good? And then we discuss and, God forbid, we are not doing anything against the big son at all.

Oren: Can you emphasize what we should not do?

Dr. Laitman: Where we put his bed. In advance, we move the big one’s bed to another place. Of course this has nothing to do with...

Nitzah: So he will not feel that something was taken from him.

Dr. Laitman: We prepare these things in advance without any connection. You should even feel it. Like you cannot write down here…

Oren: I am just writing down the principle that he is not feeling that anything is being taken from him. That he is losing something.

Dr. Laitman: If you develop the feeling called family, from there you will know what to do. The main thing is to be close to nature, close to a group, close to connection. From there, you will not make any mistakes.

Nitzah: I want to bring up a few phenomena that parents deal with. Apparently, these things are the result of lack of proper preparation, but I still want to bring them up, because they are very significant and bother a lot of parents.

For example, when a boy or a girl has to go to a nursery school and the mother stays at home with the child. Many times the kid does not want to go to the nursery school. He does not want to go away. He wants to stay close. This happens many times because suddenly he feel he is leaving the mother and new baby alone.

Dr. Laitman: It also depends on responsibility and the fact that he knows what he has to do. He gets example from others. The habits that he gets in the correct nursery school and that I am not imagining to myself that it is good for him to remain at home.

Nitzah: He wants to remain close to the mother. That is the main issue.

Dr. Laitman: No, I do not think so. He can stay a day or two.

Oren: If he wants to he can stay until he is bored and then he goes back to nursery school again.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, of course. What else?

Nitzha: Sometimes there is regression in a child that has already been weaned off, and he wants to go back to being a baby.

Dr. Laitman: Again, if we did not treat him special, and did not give him the responsibility that he is big, part of the family and that he really has to be just the opposite. He does not feel that he has become bigger. The smaller one makes him big. That is precisely the little one that adds to him, that makes him the big brother. So thanks to the little one, he is now more similar to the old ones. Thanks to there being smaller one, naturally you become the bigger one.

Nitzah: So this phenomenon…

Dr. Laitman: You need to strengthen his position as the mature one.

Nitzah: Okay. Sometimes there are also breakouts of anger. He is mad. Again, it is all a result of feeling some competition or jealousy and it has been cooking for a long time.

Dr. Laitman: You sit down right away and you do a workshop.

Nitzah: And what do I say to him? Let us say a child is 3 or 4.

Dr. Laitman: That is great.

Nitzah: Do I talk to him about the anger?

Dr. Laitman: You talk to him about everything.

Nitzah: “Why do you feel like that?”

Dr. Laitman: How do you give a workshop? We are not going to get into it. What is a child? It is a person. We need to learn. But of course, immediately if there is some problem, we do a workshop right away. What do I mean a workshop? It means that we will critique this problem soon. That the critique is of him, the elder child does not matter. Yes, it is about him. Now, he will not close up anymore.

Nitzah: Why not?

Dr. Laitman: Because now we are not talking about this negative phenomenon. First of all, we are talking about connection, about love, about something between us. And then from there, we are starting gradually yes, no, if there is place for these things or not.

Nitzah: In other words I say to him that in our family you know we love one another and we love being together.

Dr. Laitman: You are not speaking correctly.

Nitzah: So how?

Dr. Laitman: You are speaking like a grandmother.

Nitzah: So we would like to hear how.

Dr. Laitman: That is the point of the discussion. There has to be a group.

Nitzah: There is three of us.

Dr. Laitman: That does not matter. You truly do not want to hear me and the fact that everyone is equal. In our family we do not do it like this. That is what the mother is conveying to him and it is like a grandmother.

Oren: What do we do? You do not be insulted Nitzah, what do we do? You said what not to do.

Dr. Laitman: Say you get to a place, a big quality with him to love, of connection, embrace. And then he will feel how much his previous behavior was against where you are now. But he needs to discover it and not that with us it is like him.

Nitzah: Because it is actually criticizing.

Dr. Laitman: With such rejection, I would hate a mother like that.

Nitzah: You as the elder child?

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Nitzah: What would you want to hear?

Dr. Laitman: Love, what do I want? Could we get at it to participation? What do they want? What does a big person want?

Oren: So how do we deal with anger through love?

Dr. Laitman: All transgressions will be covered with love.

Oren: Our time is almost up. It was a fascinating discussion I would like you to summarize it so that in our heads we will have the main things. We discussed the transition that a family has to have to go through with the expansion of the family from parents with one child, getting ready for another child. We talked about before pregnancy, after the pregnancy and all kinds of situations. How would you like to summarize what we learned today? What kind of preparations should we make for the expansion of the family?

Dr. Laitman: We are conveying to the baby, to our baby. To the oldest, soon he will be the oldest. We are giving him an education that we are family, we are together and that everyone is equal. That everyone is equal to the others, to the extent that he is capable of giving to others. But he must give others attention love and his participation. This is his obligation for him to grow in this manner. And when another member of the family comes, a new member, we involve him in every little thing according to what he is capable of grasping with his brain.

Oren: We involve who, our eldest child?

Dr. Laitman: Yes. That soon he is going to be born, that he is coming. And how we will grow and how we will be considerate of one another. How we are going to do it. It has to always be in a natural manner that there is no choice and there does not need to be any other choice. This is life. And we just need to always maintain this connection and this equality. We must create the sense that we are always conveying a feeling to him. He needs to understand how to behave.

Oren: Thank you. Our time is up. Thank you, Nitzah. Thank you for being with us. All the best. New life.