The transcript has been transcribed and edited from English simultaneous interpretation, thus there may be potential semantic inaccuracies within it.

Daily Lesson (Morning) December 15, 2024.

Part 2: To Bestow in Order to Bestow - Selected Excerpts from the Sources. Item #5.

Reader: Hello, we’re reading excerpts from the sources To Bestow in Order to Bestow starting with excerpt number 5, Rabash

5. RABASH, Letter No. 40

Reading: (00:18) One should not think that one can do anything without pleasure. In fact, (one should know that) there are many discernments in Lishma, meaning in bestowal: “bestowing in order to bestow” means receiving pleasure from giving to the Creator. “Bestowing in order to receive” means that he gives to the Creator and by that will receive something else, whatever it may be—this world, the next world, attainments or high degrees.

However, one should be bestowing in order to bestow, meaning derive wondrous pleasure from giving to the Creator, as it truly is for those who are rewarded with it. One should plead to the Creator from the bottom of his heart to give him this feeling of loving the Creator because of His greatness.

And if he is still not rewarded, he should believe and compel his body that this is a wonderful pleasure and of great importance, and to love the Creator because of His greatness and sublimity. But one should know one thing: without pleasure, one cannot do anything to the fullest. 

Reader: (02:46) Again excerpt number 5, Rabash, letter number 40. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (04:52) So, I don't understand from the text if I should ask to bestow or ask to enjoy bestowal. 

M. Laitman: How can he enjoy bestowal if he is not bestowing? 

Student: Well, so first of all to ask to bestow, to start taking acts of bestowal, and then also start asking to enjoy these acts, that process.

M. Laitman: We need to enjoy. 

Student: The thing is that without joy, there is no fuel. So I'm just trying to understand the order here of the stages. We need to attain the greatness of the Creator from the friends, then thanks to that greatness with its help to start acting towards bestowal. Now as we act to bestow, the body maybe resists, fights, but we bend it together, right? We subdue it by a shared effort, and then gradually I'll begin to feel joy from that pleasure from that bestowal above the resistance of the body, or alongside the body? Where does the pleasure from bestowal enter in here? 

M. Laitman: The question is, what does it mean to bestow? Does it mean that I enjoy from this action, or even if I don't enjoy it, it is measured with respect to the one who is giving, or with respect to the one who is receiving?

Student: It seems to me that it's with regard to the one you bestow to, right? The Creator, the one who is outside of me, but also here in the text he says that you need to enjoy bestowal ultimately, the purpose of creation is to enjoy, right? So the question, this joy, does it need to be a part of our calculations, that we ultimately want to enjoy it so as to… 

M. Laitman: Otherwise it won't be bestowal. 

Student: So, you're saying, I can't bestow to someone unless I also enjoy it to some extent? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: That's a new thing. So again, I need to ask to be in bestowal, or to ask to enjoy bestowal?

M. Laitman: To be in bestowal, to enjoy from bestowal.

Student: And who enjoys this bestowal? First of all, I, the one who is bestowing, and also the one who receives from me. And the desire to bestow, the desire to receive enjoys bestowal, or is it only the desire to receive which is corrected with the intention in order to bestow where joy is felt? 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (07:55) It was written to love the Creator because of His greatness and sublimity. What is that? 

M. Laitman: That out of the fact that he discovers the Creator, His greatness, His importance, he begins to love him.

Student:  What is the Creator's sublimity? 

M. Laitman: That He bestows to everyone. He's the source of bestowal. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (08:36) I just wanted to continue the question. Do I enjoy the fact that I'm bestowing, or do I enjoy the fact that the Creator enjoys my bestowal? Do I enjoy my own bestowal, or the fact that the Creator enjoys me bestowing upon Him? 

M. Laitman: Do you want that the Creator will enjoy from what you're giving him? 

Student: Yes. Do I need to wait for the Creator to enjoy it, or is me bestowing enough for me? 

M. Laitman: Not enough. 

Student: I have to feel his joy.

M. Laitman: Yes.  

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (09:20) It's not clear what I can bestow to the Creator. I can bestow to the friend if I feel his lack, right? I feel I can help him, give him energy, and I enjoy the fact that I helped him. That much is clear. But what lack does the Creator have? What can I bestow upon Him? 

M. Laitman: The Creator has a lack that the created beings will bestow to Him. 

Student: In what?

M. Laitman: In that they receive from Him and enjoy from Him. 

Student: So, we should picture this picture where He wants to bestow and I can't receive, and if I don't receive correctly, I won't bestow upon Him? Is that then scrutiny? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (10:17)The Creator wants the created being to bestow upon Him, or does He want the person to bestow His bestowal? 

M. Laitman: To enjoy His bestowal. Both. Yes.

Student: It's not the same thing.

M. Laitman: No. 

Student: Wow. Can a person want something where he doesn't feel pleasure? Can a person want to bestow if he doesn't feel that he'll receive pleasure from that? 

M. Laitman: Possibly. 

Student: Thank you. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (11:17) A person goes through many different states. The Creator has him pass through many states. And if a person accepts, agrees to accept these states, does it mean that he's bestowing upon the Creator? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: And so a person can then examine if he's in agreement or not.

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Is that the only way you bestow upon the Creator, or are there other kinds of bestowal? 

M. Laitman: A person bestows, why? He opens his vessels in order to enjoy from the Creator, right? What is the benefit of that? 

Student: He bestows upon the Creator. 

M. Laitman: He bestows upon the Creator 

Student: By receiving from Him.

M. Laitman: And the Creator enjoys that. 

Student: I don't know how you can examine that anymore. 

M. Laitman: But apparently, nevertheless, a person enjoys the fact that the Creator enjoys from Him. Right? So what is the question then? 

Student: The question is, if I bestow upon the friends, which is something I can examine, does the Creator enjoy it as well? 

M. Laitman: It is written that, yes. 

Student: So these are different kinds of bestowal. You can accept and agree with everything the Creator gives you, every state, and I suppose He enjoys that. And there's a different thing where you bestow upon the friends. 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Is there a difference between the two? 

M. Laitman: There is a difference.

Student: Because receiving each and every state from the Creator and agreeing with Him doesn't seem related to the friends. Each and every person in the world goes through many different situations, and you can see if he agrees or not. You can't lie here and justify anything. So that's one kind of work. And if I succeed in that, if I succeed in receiving every state with acceptance and love from the Creator, then I'm bestowing upon Him, right? That's one kind of work. The other kind of work where I can bestow upon Him is in the group.

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Different kinds. 

M. Laitman: Different kinds.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (13:57) Do you both enjoy in bestowal, both the bestower and the one receiving? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: To the same extent? 

M. Laitman: No, these are different measures, different kinds of bestowal.

Student: Who enjoys it more? 

M. Laitman: You can't say.

Student: Another question. The pleasures of this world gradually fade? Or is it the other way around? Do they intensify, grow? What happens the more a person comes close to spirituality? What happens to the person? 

M. Laitman: A person goes through all kinds of feelings. As much as he bestows upon the Creator. Accordingly, he enjoys. 

Student: When a person begins to feel that he's not receiving pleasure from this world, what is that state? He doesn't find any taste in this world, nothing. Something opens up for him elsewhere? Is it natural? Does he need to know how to work correctly with the pleasures of this world, with the right intention? 

M. Laitman: This depends on the person's heart. 

Student: What do you mean? What is the person's heart? What is there in the person? 

M. Laitman: What his heart enjoys. 

Student: So with what intention he acts? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: My question is, is that a state you can utilize in order to advance? What is the process, the right process that should happen? When a person starts to lose the pleasures of this world? Or maybe the opposite, he starts receiving those pleasures correctly.

M. Laitman: He starts to lose the pleasures of this world. 

Student: And opposite that, does something else open up? 

M. Laitman: Opposite that, something else opens up, yes, that he develops himself.

Student: And maybe neither kind of pleasure opens for him, other pleasures or this world. And what does he do when he doesn't receive any pleasure from this world or from the next world? 

M. Laitman: When he doesn't receive pleasure from this world or from the next world, then that's very bad. So, he has nothing to do.

Student: So, from where will a person receive pleasure in such a state? What will give him fulfillment? 

M. Laitman: The Creator. 

Student: Another question, a friend sent it, he's abroad. I'll phrase it in my words. How to bestow, not because the circumstances force you to, but because you yearn to? How to work in order to bestow not because the circumstances force you to, but rather because of your own yearning.

M. Laitman: From this world? 

Student: No, in general, it's a different kind of question, how to work in order to bestow, not because of circumstances which compel you to do so, but because you yearn to bestow. 

M. Laitman: Next question.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (18:19) Perhaps from a different angle, the same question. If a person wants the Creator to enjoy, he needs to have that desire for the Creator to be delighted, not himself, right? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Why should he want the Creator to be delighted? 

M. Laitman: Because he needs to measure something. You can't measure what is happening to the other, but only in your own desire. 

Student: But my nature is such that I want to be delighted, not the Creator, nor anyone else. I want to be, so why should I want the Creator to enjoy? 

M. Laitman: This is out of your desire.

Student: So you need to aspire to that, you need to build up such a desire. 

M. Laitman: Certainly. 

Student: I think that's what the friend is asking, how to build up such a desire that the Creator will enjoy and not me.

M. Laitman: The Creator says He enjoys from the fact that you become similar to Him. 

Student: So how to build up such a desire, to yearn for it so much, to want it so much to be like Him? 

M. Laitman: We ask. We ask.

Student: So we just ask to have this yearning for the Creator to be delighted. 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (19:50) It says here, bestowing in order to bestow, for that a person needs to see the Creator's greatness, and from that he receives pleasure. The friends ask this as well. For the friends, for the Rav, that's very clear, very clear, to see the greatness of Rav or the friends, and accordingly a person also receives pleasure working for the friend or working for the Rav. But when it comes to the same picture but with respect to the Creator, it's kind of fantastical, imaginary. The example is maybe this last week I've been sitting, praying for the friends, for the Creator, and some inner state changed, yes, but the truth, I don't know. It's very... The image is unclear. We read here that you need to place the Creator in our hearts. We want to bestow upon the Creator, but... What should the image be like? 

M. Laitman: That the Creator occupies your heart. And when you feel your heart, you feel the Creator. 

Student: But why can't I feel Him? 

M. Laitman: You don't feel Him because your heart wants something else. You see? In your heart, you want to feel yourself, not him. 

Student: And how to change this? How to emerge from that state so that our work will truly be for the sake of the Creator. So that each one will feel that it's the Creator doing everything, that it's his force.

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: I think the Kabbalists tell us you need to think about the multitude, right? Not the collective, not yourself. His pleasure is received in the collective, not in the individual. So you need to find a way to emerge from the individual, to feel the collective. And there you have the place where you work. The collective, maybe it's the Ten. The main thing, it's not you, yourself. So let's say my work is to pray for the friend so that he feels the Creator, not me. Yes? Even if I don't feel, my work is still to pray that only the friend will feel the Creator. Only the friend will feel His greatness. Is that my work, ultimately? 

M. Laitman: Yes.  

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (23:30) So about that state which the friend now described, let's say a person performs some action against his desire. And the pleasure hasn't spread to his vessels yet from the greatness of the Creator. It sounds like that's a more respectable action. He acted against his will. He doesn't feel pleasure. He did it for the friend. Is it more respectable, in a way, or is it incomplete? 

M. Laitman: It is an action. An action of bestowal towards the friend. 

Student: But he didn't enjoy it. 

M. Laitman: He doesn't enjoy it. It's not considered. It's not counted. 

Student: Why? He did it against his desire? It's all only for the friend. It seems excellent. 

M. Laitman: But he doesn't have a vessel to receive.

Student: He's bestowing in order to bestow. He didn't receive pleasure yet. Fine. He made a clean action, pure, outside of himself. He didn't receive any joy. 

M. Laitman: Well, and? 

Student: It sounds like clean bestowal.

M. Laitman: What does he bestow? He doesn't feel that he's giving. 

Student: He gave to the friend, he prayed for the friend, he asked for him. It sounds like everything is correct here. The question is, is it sufficient? Let's say the friend says, I don't feel the Creator. Now he performs some action towards the friend. And I don't feel the Creator in that. Should one settle for that?

M. Laitman: Of course not.

Student: So, I have to demand some reaction, response from the Creator. 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Such that I feel pleasure?

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Now if pleasure spreads through my vessels because I bestowed upon the friend, what does it mean with respect to my relationship with the Creator? 

M. Laitman: Wait a minute. But... Wait a moment. You are bestowing? 

Student: Yes, I performed an action. 

M. Laitman: And you feel that you're bestowing? You get pleasure from it? 

Student: I performed an action, and I feel that in my vessels, joy, pleasure is spreading. So what does that mean with respect to my relationship with the Creator? What does it indicate? 

M. Laitman: That you're both in the same action.

Student: Meaning that there's reciprocity here, the Creator receives contentment if joy spreads through me? 

M. Laitman: Yes, apparently.  

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (26:14) Bestowing in order to bestow, how to interpret it correctly, it's bestowing in order to enjoy bestowal, or to bestow and not to enjoy the bestowal even if there's no joy in bestowing in order to bestow. 

M. Laitman: There is pleasure, but you do not intend for it. 

Student: I don't intend for it? So what do I do when it reaches me, regardless? 

M. Laitman: You don't receive it. You are not directed towards it. 

Student: I'm not directed towards it, fine, but if it arrives, I need to relate to it in some way. 

M. Laitman: How?

Student: That's what I'm asking. Should I reject it so as to be bestowing in order to bestow, or because the intention was in order to bestow, then I can work with that to receive it. 

M. Laitman: And what are you going to do? 

Student: I don't know. That's what I can't figure out from our scrutiny here.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (27:34) It's written, make for yourself a Rav and buy for yourself a friend. The Rav needs to be great. You need to have the greatness of the Creator for a person to be able to concede something, to make a concession. We have to demand the greatness of the Creator in order to concede the ego, right? If there's no importance, no greatness, then it's impossible to make this concession. So if it's aimed towards concession, then to begin with, you can demand the Creator's greatness, right? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Now, making a concession, here if perhaps I can ask, what is the act of concession? After you have the greatness and importance, buying a friend, purchasing a friend, the concession, if we can perhaps elaborate that point, what do I demand? What is the purchase? Purchasing, buying, it's like I want to add something, right? What do I want to buy? 

M. Laitman: Vessels of bestowal.

Student: But I already have the importance of the Creator, there's make for yourself a Rav, so what do I buy? 

M. Laitman: The fact that you fill Him with your vessels of bestowal, that's what you're doing, and then you feel in that how much you fill Him.

Student: So again, I fail to understand, what do I concede? I need to pay with something, right? To buy something. 

M. Laitman: You pay in that you do not receive. 

Student: So what did I buy? 

M. Laitman: You acquired His vessels.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (30:09) He writes that you need to pour your heart out to the Creator, to be given this feeling to love the Creator due to his greatness. Now, a person who feels no pain from not loving the Creator, what will cause him to turn to the Creator? What will even budge him in the right direction? He doesn't feel any pain or sorrow?

M. Laitman: If a person has no feeling with respect to the Creator, then you can't change anything in him.

Student: Is it possible to awaken sorrow? I'm not talking about depression or pain, but…

M. Laitman: No, something more internal, that's impossible. 

Student: So you can't awaken a lack? I mean, still we want there to be some kind of feeling, emotion. I feel that if there's this emotion, a kind of sorrow regarding the sorrow of divinity, that we're in pain because we are failing to bestow contentment, there's such a feeling. Without that, I feel that this is the best fuel. So this thing, we have to awaken it, we have to find it. And you say that it's impossible artificially to do so. So here we need some counsel, some real counsel from you. 

M. Laitman: You have to bring it out of yourselves. In each and every one of you, it will be felt differently.

Student: The sorrow? 

M. Laitman: The sorrow, the magnitude, the height, the feeling, the perfection, the wholeness. 

Student: If I wanted to help a friend, to help him feel more caring, to feel more emotional about us failing to bestow upon the Creator, coming closer to that, what is the advice? How can I help him? 

M. Laitman: You reveal to the friend the emptiness in your vessel. 

Student: By what do I reveal to him the emptiness of my own vessel? 

M. Laitman: By revealing to him yourself.

Student: So it's good for us in the meetings, in our meetings, in the connection between us to… 

M. Laitman: I don't think it's desirable or not desirable, but it is sometimes necessary to use that. 

Student: I understand that I depend on the friend. Because if the friend felt pain due to not managing to bestow contentment, something emotional, right? It would certainly affect me, it would awaken something in me, right? So I want him to have this pain, I would like to awaken in him that thing. And that means, from this point, what do I do with the friend? Because I know that it's absolutely critical for me to see emotion in the friend. Again, a deep passion, a deep concern, and it will immediately influence me, affect me, and everyone else also. So, from this point, what do I do towards the friend? 

M. Laitman: You need to try. One time this way, another time that way, and see what it depends on. What is worthwhile for you to develop? First of all, what feeling maybe, towards the feeling, or lack of feeling, towards joy, connection. 

Student: If it was possible to point to one thing we lack now in order to skip ahead to… Can you help us focus on that one thing that's lacking? What is it? 

M. Laitman: I think that joy out of connection.

Student: To increase the joy.

M. Laitman: Yes.  

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (35:55) The magnitude and greatness of the Creator that we generate between us, is this how we measure the vessel in which we give the Creator contentment?

M. Laitman: It could be. 

Student: So my question is, if we do it together, which has to be close to in order to bestow, or maybe the whole Ten together can also be with a wrong intention, or in order to receive. 

M. Laitmain: Yes.

Student: So the salvation is simply that we perform this action together? And then for certain we're coming closer to giving the Creator pleasure? 

M. Laitman: Yes. You buy him by not receiving?

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (36:57) There's a connection there? So can we say that you do not receive, but you're certain that the Ten is receiving? Meaning to come out of the calculation of, I received, or he did not receive, I suffer, I enjoy, to the calculation of the Ten? That there, for sure, the Creator is operating? 

M. Laitman: Yes, it's possible. 

Student: So I do not receive, but a friend will receive, or the whole Ten will receive. Seemingly it liberates me from this concern that I received, I did not receive. 

M. Laitman: It doesn't liberate. 

Student: But the direction is…

M. Laitman: No, it doesn't absolve your inaction.

Student: Not that I didn't do, I did. The question was about the pleasure. The pleasure is revealed.

M. Laitman: The joy is revealed in the vessel which receives and wants with that to feel the giver. 

Student: But this vessel is not in the one who performed the action, but the vessel is in the Ten, or outside of him? 

M. Laitman: It's in the Ten, yes.

Student: So we need to search for it there, and not, why did I do, but did not receive? 

M. Laitman: Yes. Okay. Yes, last one.  

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (38:27) But even if I will search for it in the Ten, he must find it there. He must feel the pleasure that is in the Ten. He can't just leave it like that. He has to reach, otherwise he's not connected, I mean, he has to reach pleasure. This is what closes, concludes the action. 

M. Laitman: All right, what are the plans then? So we will now continue with the Zohar, we will do it with the friends, so please.