A Talk with Dr. Michael Laitman

A New Life

“Placing boundaries Part B”

Talk 209 - 16 July 2013

Oren: Today we have gathered with you to learn from Dr. Laitman how we can improve various relationships in our life, within which we'll find a new and better life, where we'll feel each other as close, warm, embraced and loved. This ability to connect with others in a new form will open a new world for us; it will help us wake up in the morning with light in our eyes and lead us to a new and better life. On this series “A New Life,” we would like to focus on a different kind of relationship each program, to learn principles we'll be able to use in life in all our interactions with other people.

Our talk today is a program from the course for parents on how to connect with our children correctly and how to prepare them and us for the best possible life. Our last talk was very special, even revolutionary; we spoke about placing boundaries. You taught us a very significant principle and we would like to continue discussing it this program.

Nitsa: The approach you presented is actually ground breaking. This method tells the parent that he is not the one who needs to establish boundaries and be some kind of guard or policeman. Rather, he needs to organize an environment, a society, external factors wisely, so that they will affect children in such a way for them to learn and understand the boundaries themselves. That way, they won't see boundaries as some kind of rule or condition, something forced upon them, rather, on their own, they realize that boundaries are actually necessary for them; they guard and protect them, enabling them to develop.

This approach is very unique and different from what is accepted in the world. Accordingly, we received many comments and questions, so we'd like to deepen, develop and refine this process. The first question, regarding the topic of boundaries - how does the child start to learn that boundaries are good for him, beneficial, help him continue growing and developing? How does this understanding that a boundary is a good thing rather than a bad thing start building in a child?

Dr. Laitman: From examples.

Nitsa: But how? Children always have the tendency to breach boundaries.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. But the parent has to be responsible for the child and continually talk and show how he behaves and what he thinks about all aspects of whatever child needs to choose from, all various options. So the parent just talks about it – if it's worthwhile or not and why you can or cannot. It’s as if he's talking from the child's side, but from the wise child or friend. He constantly talks and acts without paying specific attention to the child. This way, he shows the child that this is the school of life. He keeps saying, “This is a glass. I have to put it here so it won’t break. This is how I need to act. This is a fork. I shouldn’t wave it around, because I can scratch myself.” He talks and carries on, at the pace and using language the child understands, regarding things the child can follow.

It is this way with everything. “What a wonderful red picture we have here.” He talks about everything he sees and expresses his opinion. What he does, sees, feels, and hears; he talks about everything and the child starts to understand his father’s approach to life. That’s all. It’s not like Dad telling him, “Do it this way, don’t do that, I am allowed to and you aren't.” Instead, Dad is talking about his approach to life, of course on the child’s level. Nothing else, we don’t need anything else. It’s like he is standing behind the child and constantly explaining what he is seeing and how he would act. That is what he conveys.

Nitsa: Actually, you are saying that he conveys a certain feeling to him.

Dr. Laitman: A worldview.

Nitsa: Is it a worldview that says: I’m always with you?

Dr. Laitman: No. He doesn’t even say with you or not. He says something like “This is me.” This way, the child understands his father and feels him. He sees what he would do and how he would do it, his opinion on everything and he learns from that. How do we know this? From our study of the two Partzufim (Faces)-The Upper and the Lower. The Upper always transmits his knowledge to the lower, since where would the lower receive it otherwise?

Nitsa: You have just described a kind of formula. In simple words, what you are saying is not to restrict the child or tell him, “Do this or don’t do that.”

Dr. Laitman: We can’t do that. As a resul, he should be able to set boundaries himself.

Nitsa: The fact that I convey my worldview to him makes him understand that I do so because it is to my benefit, or I don’t act that way, because it could actually harm me. So, through actions and personal examples the parent gives the child, does he learn what is right to do and what isn’t?

Dr. Laitman: That is on one hand. On the other hand, since I don’t tell him what to do and what not to do, I don’t say “No” to him. Rather, I constantly talk about myself, which doesn’t limit him. It doesn’t stop him, he can also do something himself. I don’t program him for life.

Nitsa: Now let’s take a real example. One of the most difficult things for parents in the early stages is putting the child to bed and staying there, without wanting to get out or not going to sleep on time. So, how, by using this method can I explain to my child in a practical way, say he is three years old, that now it's time for bed?

Dr. Laitman: Here, we only need an example. Nothing else, and children get used to things much faster than we do. So we probably need to lie down somewhere in the same room, close to them and they’ll see that we are also going to sleep. That’s it.

Nitsa: As you said earlier, should the parent say something like “I am going to sleep now, because this way I gain my strength. And tomorrow morning I will wake up happy?”

Dr. Laitman: Yes. And “Let’s sing a lullaby together.” Not that I stand over him and sing to him, but I also lie down and sing. Within a week, I'll see that he lies down by himself, sings to himself and falls asleep. Everything by example, nothing but example. Look at animals, how they teach their cubs to hunt or do anything else - only by example. We need to follow their example. When I explain to the child what I think, the words are meaningless, unless the child is in the same spirit and understands by himself. The main thing is the example.

Nitsa: In certain situations the child asks for something outside. For example, we were at a toy store, or actually a candy shop, and there were other children. The child started touching things and the mother asked the salesperson to explain to him that it’s not allowed to touch sweets or maybe even eat some. The child was 5 years old. First, he was stunned and stopped. After a while, since he wasn’t alone, but with a few other friends, they looked at each other and he was reinforced by his peer group. After a few seconds, he recovered and continued doing the same thing again. It is a very interesting example. If this child was in the store alone and the salesperson had scolded him, he most likely would have accepted it, responded and stopped. But here, we could clearly see two factors, two forces. On one hand, the environment showing him it’s not allowed, on the other hand, he is suddenly strengthened by his friends and acts otherwise. Why does that happen?

Dr. Laitman: That is clearly the force of the environment.

Nitsa: Does it mean that the influence of children was stronger than the influence of his mother?

Dr. Laitman: It’s impossible to stop. The influence of the environment of peers is always stronger - children, not adults who he doesn’t accept, doesn’t see. Adults are something that doesn’t exist in his world. They are above his level and invisible. Unlike his friends who are on the same level, maybe even a year or two older, which is even better because he wants to grow up. So, they are a stronger example for him, only they can influence him. There is no rational way to change his behavior to be different from them.

Oren: I would like to examine this case differently for a moment. I’ll give an introduction and then ask the question. In our previous conversation on setting boundaries, the main principle I got for myself was that as a parent, I can’t give the child a feeling that I am restricting him. Rather, I need to be a wise parent and constantly arrange situations where life produces different restrictions. He needs to feel me as “I am always with you, I love you, I am your friend, always supporting you in doing whatever you want, but there are various things that obligate us.”

With this principle, let's now return to the same candy shop. For the sake of our example, say I came into the store with the child alone, without his friends. A daily situation in any store. A mother enters the store with a small child and while she shops, the child touches half the store, whatever he can reach.

Then this mother, if I understand her question, asks - I tried not to be an ordinary mother who says: “Leave it alone, enough, don’t touch, put back the chocolate, put back this and that, I will only buy you one candy, it isn't healthy, etc.” This is what she used to do before, but after she heard our previous discussion, she realized it’s not wise to tell him “Leave it alone! Instead, she needs to find a better way to give the child a feeling that “I am with you and would be happy if you fulfilled every desire arising in you.” And then arrange a situation, where he’ll learn that he cannot. So she turned to the salesperson, because she wanted to be wise, and said, “Do me a favor, explain to him that he can’t behave like that in the store.” The salesperson approached the child and said, “Hello dear, you can’t do this and that...” And the child understood. Someone else came over, explained to him and he understood. Bus the mother is saying that after a few minutes, the effect vanished.

Dr. Laitman: Of course.

Oren: After a few minutes, the child forgot about the salesperson and all the nice things he told him and proceeded. What does she do now? She wanted to stick to the principle of being a wise parent and she seemingly tried it. She stopped her natural urge to limit him and arranged a clever situation, but after just a few minutes, she saw the child was busy with the chocolate shelf again, so what does she do now? That’s her question.

Dr. Laitman: There is nothing she can do. Adults also have short-termed memory.

Nitsa: Quickly return to the forbidden…

Dr. Laitman: Yes. It works for a few seconds at most, no more. Here it can be either way – either, we buy him something that will last throughout our trip to the store, or we need to be with him the whole time and explain why we can’t buy him everything. Or both things together – which is the best. That way, he receives much explanation from us during this trip to the store. Why I buy meat and why fish, what this vegetable is, what I do with it and where it grows. Why this is red, that is blue, and so on.

Include him in my work, in my shopping. I can give him some snack to take along, something he can chew on. But he needs to be with me the entire time, he shops together with me. I tell him “Now we need to find parsley.” He doesn’t know what parsley is, so I explain to him: "It's a special herb, looks so and so, go and find it.” Then, he is not looking for sweets any more, he becomes my partner in shopping.

Nitsa: He actually has a task.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. Add how much we need and this is too much or not enough, where it grows. I also give him a little botany, biology, zoology. Everything inside one grocery store. And then I explain to him – look at how much it costs and how much it weighs. Even though he doesn’t exactly understand what it means. But he hears these words and with time, it becomes clearer. That way, it becomes a lesson. It’s a big part of our life, what we eat, why we need vegetables, meat, fruits, what it provides us, what is better for children and what is better for adults. We can give him an ocean of information. I repeat – talk, constantly talk.

Nitsa: What does it give the child? While you were explaining, I felt how the child gradually learns the laws of life and society and it builds his confidence. The feeling that he knows how we behave in life. This was the feeling you conveyed.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, he becomes an adult. At the age of 4 or 5, he can come to the store and shop, knowing quantities. He’ll know what we need and what it’s for. This is for soup, and this is for the main meal, and Mom makes fruit salad out of this and she needs that for cake. Just like that.

Nitsa: If I understand correctly, you are saying that parents need to constantly explain, be a type of advisor.

Dr. Laitman: Correct. When the parent drives to the store, returns home and goes up the stairs. All the time.

Nitsa: When the parent does that, the child doesn’t need very clear limitations, because he already understands.

Dr. Laitman: What for? No limitations. He gives a positive limitation. “Up to here, and more is not advisable” instead of saying “You are forbidden!” “We are turning right now, when we turn right we need to look left and right, forward and backward. If nobody’s there, we turn.” Just like that. This way he, in advance, is teaching his future grandchildren born from this child.

Nitsa: What you are teaching here is very revolutionary. Because what is common these days? When a parent tries to make his child do something or restrict him in something and fails and tries again and explains a few times and fails again, at the end, according to the letters we received from mothers: “Finally I play my threat card, “If you don’t do this and that, I will not buy you this and that.” “If you don’t go to bed on time, you won’t go to your friend tomorrow.” “If you don’t do your homework, I won’t buy you sweets.”

Dr. Laitman: It works, provided I depend on you, the mother. The moment I stop depending on you, I gladly give you a boot and do what I want. When the child turns 11 or 12, he will start ignoring you.

Nitsa: Does that mean that while he is a small child, he’ll listen to those threats?

Dr. Laitman: He has no choice, poor thing; he is under the influence of his restricting parents. But later, the time comes when he suddenly explodes. The society is stronger, influencing him more. He has no habits other than “it's forbidden” and his whole ego and nature goes against this. He has no other approach to life. He doesn’t know why he needs to keep boundaries, because he was repeatedly told “it's forbidden.”

If I constantly explained to him, imbued in him principles of logical and rational behavior in life, now, when he sees how others behave, within him, the same father speaks, the one who kept telling him how to behave, what's worthwhile or not. He can judge them. Otherwise, if I just restrict him, what will he enter this life with?

Nitsa: It means that the correct approach is not to forbid, but to explain why it is necessary.

Dr. Laitman: Definitely. When my son was sixteen years old, I bought him a ticket to take all the trains in Europe, so he took his backpack and went. Without anything. He went to India, to many different places. He was in Russia, in places scary to hear where he was calling from, and then came back. He slept on a ship deck; there were 200 beds for poor people, and he slept with them there. What he told us was beautiful-that we need to do what we must do.

Nitsa: Parents often use prizes or surprises, which they give to the child when he did what they wanted him to do. What do you think about saying to the child something like “You went to sleep on time, tomorrow morning you’ll receive a prize?”

Dr. Laitman: That isn't good.

Nitsa: Meaning, we have a prize instead of a threat.

Dr. Laitman: That is also wrong. He needs to know that this is the lifestyle, the way of life. It’s not bad and not good. If he behaves well, it’s for his benefit. Why does he need to receive a prize for it? I don’t understand that. I only explain to him what I would do and that is how, in a way, I tell him how to behave rationally in order to eliminate suffering and succeed in life. Actually, he should give me a prize.

Otherwise, I seemingly tell him: “If you listen to your Dad, he will give you a prize.” That is wrong. Is listening to me so harmful that I need to sweeten it? And when I stop giving prizes, will he stop listening to me?

It should be completely external to those things. If we have a chance to enjoy pizza with a soda, or sweets or a game, a trip or anything else, it’s just because we have the opportunity, not because of this or that.

Oren: You spoke about prizes for good behavior, what about threats? Previously you spoke about threats such as: “And if you don’t do it…"

Dr. Laitman: Threats need to exist, but not from me. I need to explain to him what threats in life are, where they could come from and how to bypass them, be safe from them. It's the same with prizes. If there is an opportunity for a nice holiday, trip, candy, ice cream in some café, we use it. It has to be for no reason.

Nitsa: Prizes shouldn’t be associated with behaving correctly.

Dr. Laitman: No, this is part of life – if everything is all right, a person also deserves prizes. Do I say to my wife: “Let’s go have some coffee because you were good?”

Nitsa: So you mean – why say this to a child.

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Oren: I would like to hear how you would implement these principles in practice. Let’s say, I need to drive with my little son in a car and I need to fasten him in the seat for his safety, but he doesn’t want to be fastened, he resists.

Dr. Laitman: Does that really happen?

Oren: It certainly does. In the middle of the trip, the child says he wants to unfasten himself.

Nitsa: He doesn’t want to sit with the safety belt.

Dr. Laitman: But this is a habit, already.

Oren: Yes, but children are dynamic, sometimes he wants to take the belt off. If he wants to take the belt off, he is creating a security issue, right? I can’t take chances.

Dr. Laitman: So you won’t drive.

Oren: I won’t drive. So let’s create a script. Let’s assume I started studying in the course for parents. So I say “Dr. Laitman explains that I need to talk the whole time and explain” And I start telling him that I will drive the car soon and I have a seat belt there.

Dr. Laitman: No, what for? You sit in the car and explain to him what a seat belt is. Don’t tell him what will happen in the car. The child doesn’t understand these things; they are your fantasies. It’s like when someone explains something to you that you don’t understand and can’t feel with your hands; it doesn’t really work. You sit in the car without starting it, without anything. Explain to him: “Look what we have here, we have a seat belt and we are not driving without it. Look, I am fastening my seat belt and so on, now I have a seat belt on. So the warning light doesn’t light up and I can drive. And if I undo the seat belt” and you start the car, “the car tells me that it doesn’t want to drive. It's the same with you. But, because you are smaller than me, you have a smaller chair and a special seat belt. So let’s fasten our seat belts or the car won’t drive.”

Nitsa: It means you don’t even explain to him that it's dangerous to drive without a seat belt.

Dr. Laitman: He doesn’t understand that. He doesn’t understand what is dangerous and what isn’t. Even adults don’t understand that it's dangerous. Instead they understand that paying a few hundred dollar fine is what’s dangerous. What's so dangerous inside the city? Perhaps just on the freeway out of the city. But inside the city, could driving for twenty meters be dangerous? We’re always ready to rid ourselves of the problem that way.

I have to show him in a logical way, as much as possible, that this is not up to him or me; the car is built this way; it won’t drive. That’s it, we don’t have a choice. And if I ever drive without a seat belt, I’ll totally destroy my education, spoil everything. He’ll know I am lying. Here I need to keep to the things I said, to be straightforward. The child is like a judge.

Nitsa: “A Child is like a judge” – that's nice.

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Nitsa: Actually, if I didn’t do something I said to him even once, I start conveying a mixed message to him.

Dr. Laitman: Immediately. I can thus delete years of .my education. Definitely.

Oren: Suppose I'm your child and I'm not convinced.

Dr. Laitman: When I bought a car, my son wanted to sit next to me. Immediately my wife and I told him his place is in the back. He was 4 or 5 years old. Cars didn’t have seat belts in the back; I'm not even sure there were seat belts in the front. And we never had a problem since then. He would wait at the back door to sit in the car. And if he insisted, I repeated the explanation again and again.

Oren: I will use a slightly more dramatic situation, please tell me what to do. I brought my child to the car, explained everything to him, did everything just the way you said, but the child still has this outburst and doesn’t want to fasten his seat belt. I need to drive somewhere; we didn’t come to the car for fun, we need to drive somewhere. Maybe it’s in the morning, I need to go to work, or maybe it’s in the evening and I am late for something. We don’t have time, life requirements are such that I don’t have a lot of time for this project. I just need to drive with him from one place to another.

Dr. Laitman: That’s right.

Oren: So, I start driving following the wise parent policy; I already know what you've explained here, it’s called “being a wise parent.” I started using all the tools I received here in the parenting course, but my child is angry today, doesn’t want to fasten his seat belt and I need to drive; I start looking anxiously at my watch.

Dr. Laitman: Can he undo the seat belt by himself?

Oren: I don’t want to go into details, not even concentrate on the case with the car; I am trying to study the idea, because sooner or later, it will happen to me in a thousand different situations. I started behaving as a wise parent, the way I understood a wise parent should act, explaining, using every tool I have, and he is like a rock, not budging, doesn’t "wanna." So, it’s just a question of time till my patience wears off and I’ll turn to the method of threats or to the method of prizes, after being unsuccessful with the wise parent method. So my question is about the principle.

Dr. Laitman: The principle is very simple. I hold his hand firmly without hurting him, but very firmly and based on my positive, normal approach, he begins to see that I am not playing games anymore. I have to use some force, control and threats. I need for him to be afraid of me, it's a must. He needs boundaries. Without them, our animate part can’t survive. He needs to feel these boundaries. However, it's on condition that he feels boundaries, without constantly living within them. Boundaries are in places we discussed before. We live with him in agreement, friendship, connection, and embracing. But the moment his animate part goes over those boundaries and jumps fences, it encounters wolves and needs to be afraid of those wolves.

He leaves me no other choice, we are not friends anymore. I am not an older friend or a big brother. I treat him totally differently, like a criminal. I have to teach this to him, because otherwise life will teach him. He needs to know that beyond a certain limit, there is punishment.

Nitsa: When you were describing that, I felt you were suggesting we act without words.

Dr. Laitman: Very seriously. I transform so quickly that he sees he is now facing a completely different person. Instead of caresses and hugs, he sees a wolf on the other side of the fence. "There is a bear outside…."

Nitsa: Let’s elaborate on this and see what we do and don’t do in such a case. We don’t yell, don’t raise our voice, and don’t explain why not again, what do we do? We actually perform some physical act, so the child will feel that our intention is very firm, very clear.

Dr. Laitman: I take his hand very firmly, sit him in the chair and fasten his seat belt. That’s all. He can’t do anything, can’t move. He knows that if he doesn’t listen to what I say nicely when we are friends and together, we won't be friends or together. I am above him and he is below me. I don’t regard him at all. I am above him in Nature. It is a law.

Oren: I didn’t understand that.

Dr. Laitman: If you jump off the cliff and ask for help, will Nature help you? No. Here it's the same. If you break the law, don’t ask for help.

Oren: How does the parent decide when he needs to act this way? I feel you were describing two images. One image of a child’s friend, I am with you, we are together, I explain etc. and over there, faraway are boundaries.

Dr. Laitman: We all have boundaries. He needs to know that I have boundaries too. But I don’t explain while he's yelling in the car, not at the same time. Therefore, I tell him that I am running late and am very upset with him. But, he needs to know that I have boundaries too; I can’t drive without him wearing a seat belt. I can’t do this and that because they are the laws of Nature, society, or others.

I need to teach him to see where the boundary is. I need to keep my body safe, or I will fall off the cliff or drown in the river. In society, I can’t do whatever I want, because I'll get beaten or killed, in all areas. The heat or the cold, we need to save ourselves from many things. It's not that my father is big and strong and can do anything or that if I touch anything or do anything, nothing will happen to me.

If you give him that impression, he’ll suffer a lot later in life. He won’t have any boundaries. A spoiled child is truly miserable. It’ll be really hard for him if you give him the impression that he can do anything in life. He’ll feel that way until old age.

Oren: Just a second, I'm lost.

Dr. Laitman: If you allow him to do anything without boundaries, later in life he’ll want to treat everything this way. It will be his internal program.

Oren: Is that good or not?

Dr. Laitman: Of course not. He needs to know that Dad also has boundaries and Dad also explains where they are. But he also explains that if you behave correctly within these boundaries, consider and maintain them, you will have a really good life.

Oren: How do we know where the boundary between not spoiling someone and being a policeman is? You said that he needs to feel me close, love me like a friend, not like a bad policeman.

Dr. Laitman: The golden path, the middle lane. I don’t know how to say it. One small candy a day is permitted but no more, going to sleep at seven in the evening and no later, having a bath before bed, organizing his things and clothes and putting dirty clothes in the laundry. I show him how I do these things and he has to do so, as well.

Oren: You are saying that a wise parent plays two images; one image is – I explain, I am a friend, I am like an older brother, a bit wiser, know life a little better and I am with you as a guide and will always be with you. We need to try to be in this image as much as possible. In addition, we need to mark distant boundaries and if we cross them or get close to them, the parent needs to remove the first image and switch to the second image of the attacker.

Dr. Laitman: It doesn’t come from the parent; the child actually shows himself this boundary where “Warning” is written. If you cross the permitted boundary, the parent’s face becomes stubborn, stern, threatening, depending on your distance from the boundary. I treat you well, but suddenly I start being not so nice, until you see it won’t work for you. I let you feel where you are, feel the limits.

Oren: In this example, you demonstrated transition from image A to image B. How will I know when the situation is right, the time is right to make this transition, so it’s not done out of anger or lack of patience or lack of desire to invest in correctly educating my child? Perhaps I gave up and didn’t invest at all in the first image of being a good teacher, etc. Rather, I automatically switched to the second, hostile, rigid image. So, how would I know I am not fooling myself and measure correctly when to make this switch you just described?

Dr. Laitman: You need to get used to talking all the time. I am going to force him into the chair. He doesn’t understand that it is dangerous, or I will be fined or now a policeman will approach and I’ll have to pay. You explain this to him through a thousand examples. It is true, not a lie. It’s not like “now a bear will come,” you explain to him exactly what is happening in life.

Nitsa: And all of this, only after you really give all the explanations and you really feel you’ve done everything you could.

Dr. Laitman: You show him how much things are accelerating when, say, throughout your explanation, he still doesn’t want to sit or anything else. In the end, you force him to do as you said, just like the police when they catch someone and put him in jail. He needs to know those stages.

Nitsa: Actually, it’s okay to let him taste this once or even more than once, because he needs to know when he is getting too close.

Dr. Laitman: Certainly. But we really need to switch here from the loving parent who gives everything, because the child is exactly in the center. The more he moves from the center and from the correct behavior, the more we shift, until we issue a major warning. That’s how we are with Nature and everything in life.

Nitsa: While you were explaining that, it reminded me, although I was just a little girl, that every time my mother set a boundary for me, I asked her afterwards: “Mom, do you love me?” I was afraid that if she set boundaries now, maybe she doesn’t love me anymore.

Dr. Laitman: No. They need to know that it switches quickly, you got yelled at, threats, even physical restrictions and now, according to your behavior you and I are back to being good friends. It’s like I get close to heat and cold. The parent needs to present himself as an inanimate, as Nature. Not with aggravation, not on the animate level, not on the human level but on the inanimate level. I don't get upset on my own, I have nothing of my own, I just show him. I explain life to him, explain where he is. I accompany him on every journey in his life and simply reflect the approach of society, the world and Nature to him as they do. It’s like on a trip, when we enter a certain place and the guide explains to us: “You see here is this and that.” That’s what he needs to constantly hear from me. It’s hard work.

Nitsa: Regarding boundaries for young children under the age of 3, we noticed that children react better to boundaries set by the mother, rather than external boundaries, for example a friend’s mother. Let’s say a child took a toy from a friend and his friend’s mother warned him about it. He won’t listen and will continue to play, but when his mother warns him about it, he listens to her more. We felt a transition here, maybe when the child is very young, he is less influenced by society. Maybe he still doesn’t have the feeling of the society and he listens more to his mother.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, because he needs his mother; he feels dependent on her and the other mother is here now, but she won’t be here later. Our ego always wants to escape the load of responsibility for anything, so of course that’s how it is. But later we develop a sense of shame, so he’ll listen to someone else's mother more. With my mother, I can somehow manage, but again it depends on the education. We need to constantly explain. Of course, we don’t want him to listen to any strange mother. Only if he goes to visit his friend or something similar, not all the time.

Nitsa: I would like to discuss another aspect, the division of tasks between the father and mother in this respect. In the past, for example, it was customary, and I think not just in the past but today as well, that the mother often spends much more time with the children, and it often happens that the child listens to her less. Many times, at some stage, she says: “Wait till Dad comes, I’ll tell him what happened.” She turns Dad into a policeman or deterrent. What do you think about that and how can we actually divide tasks between the parents regarding this matter of boundaries?

Dr. Laitman: It is a very complex system. It’s better for the child not to differentiate between the father and mother. It's best for them both to operate in the same direction, and not one being kind and the other, judging. Both should understand each other and act in the best interest of the child. When both parents have one opinion, one view, one say and the same influence on the child, it will give the child a desire to look for the same thing in life. He’ll know that family is when everybody thinks alike, has the same desire and understanding. There are no arguments, no friction, etc. It will also help him integrate between them and not try to hide somewhere between the father and mother.

Therefore it’s preferable not to behave the way you described. I understand and know that people do that, but it’s wrong. The father shouldn’t be a policeman, absolutely not. It’s bad. And the mother shouldn’t be so helpless; it has to be exactly the way we learn from our wisdom. We speak about father and mother and both are above the child, who is below them.

Nitsa: What should their approach be?

Dr. Laitman: Of course, there is the force of the father and the force of the mother, but they need to be enveloped in each other. They work on the child together, not separately. Not that this comes from Dad and this from Mom; rather, both influence the child as one.

Nitsa: Naturally, the child always wants to please his parents with his behavior, his conduct. So in this matter of boundaries, how do we use this attribute, this natural inclination of the child, which is to constantly please his parents, make them happy so they’ll appreciate him keeping boundaries? How do we connect this to the matter of boundaries? Because it is natural; the child usually wants to be on good terms with his parents. How do we use his attribute of trying to be good regarding the setting of boundaries? Is there any connection or not at all?

Dr. Laitman: We use it instinctively, naturally, but if we talk about everything and convey to him by talking, explaining, discussing my impressions of life, of everything I see, the child builds his form of reality from it. Among everything else, I also convey boundaries, possibilities and dangers to him. That’s how it works. We don’t need to worry about it. I also convey common sense, logic, my approach to different things, the need to ask “why?” to make calculations. He receives a great deal of information. He starts to think the way I think. He starts to stream it through his brain in every situation he encounters.

Nitsa: I would like, toward the last part of the program, to finish with the question we began with; what is the purpose of boundaries for the child and why is it good altogether?

Dr. Laitman: Boundaries need to exist. Because the reality we are in sets boundaries for us within Nature, since we are not capable of everything. Since we belong to the animate world, we are limited, existing in the world of the inanimate, vegetative, animate and man. Therefore, our abilities are limited to the extent that our environment allows us to exist and enjoy it without harming it. Otherwise, it starts reacting to us in many different forms, from the inanimate, vegetative, animate and man, as well. So, boundaries are a natural thing and we just need to know them.

I need to attain the feeling of the boundary and be afraid of crossing it, in order not to cause damage to myself or others. We really need these things as much as possible in a rational way, so the child won’t reach a state of doing anything dangerous, like jumping off heights or something similar, rather, he’ll look at someone doing that and consider if it’s right or wrong to do so. Usually, if children see someone jumping head down, no matter why, they immediately want to do the same.

We need to build a very strong ability within the child to be critical of everything others do; it’ll help us lead him to higher levels of internal attainment of the world. He shouldn't go blindly after anyone; it has to be the result of studying it. Actually, today, we're talking about parents studying integral education.

Nitsa: Parents who are going through the process of learning this approach, yes.

Dr. Laitman: They need to pass it on to their children.

Oren: You pointed out before that even though you, as a parent, have two images, one of a good friend and another of a harsh one, setting boundaries the way life does. If you already make the switch from good to harsh, it’s very important that the switch isn't made out of anger. Human beings are not robots. I, as a parent am not a robot, not a machine, and whatever I learn here in the parenting course, I am learning because I truly want to improve and so on. But at the moment of truth, in different situations in life, what do I do with the anger rush I feel? How do I learn to control this anger when something specific doesn’t work in this experiment, so I will still behave with the child in the special way I am learning?

Dr. Laitman: You take his hand firmly and he knows he has reached the boundary, and you move him somewhere else, sit him down and say firmly, “fasten your seat belt” and he knows nothing else can be done now, he got as far as he could with his outburst, he won’t get any further, as if Dad is controlling him now.

Oren: I understood this, I am not asking about the actual act, but the place I am acting from; where I am coming from now. If I got angry with the child in this situation, all rationality, intellect, understanding and everything I learn now moves away and I am very angry. How can I make it pass? Because you said it shouldn’t be a result of anger, even if I switch to the harsh image.

Dr. Laitman: Certainly. You’re still a teacher.

Oren: That is the goal you described.

Nitsa: It’s as if the parent has to constantly rise above.

Dr. Laitman: Correct. Children build parents, that’s clear.

Oren: I am asking a concrete question, how I as a parent can learn to control my anger rush in a situation, when something isn't going the way it should.

Dr. Laitman: I think that if you behave the way we discussed previously, the child won’t have an opportunity for outbursts.

Oren: Children drive me crazy ten times an hour!

Dr. Laitman: Try to implement in life what we discussed and you’ll see. I don’t think that if you have been explaining to them and talking with them the whole time, they’ll have outbursts; they don't go together. They won’t be in that state of mind.

Oren: I am not asking about them, but about myself.

Dr. Laitman: You, too.

Oren: How do I handle myself when I suddenly feel disappointed or angry or fuming? I am asking about myself now, without any connection to the children.

Dr. Laitman: But where did that come from? Not from the children, I think it won’t come from the children if you have behaved according to what we just said.

Oren: Do you have advice for the parent how to control his aggravation?

Dr. Laitman: I think that you won’t be aggravated in the situation we discussed. But if you have an outburst, it means that you have missed a few lessons on integral education.

Nitsa: What if the parent thinks that he made a mistake and crossed a boundary, how can he cover it up?

Dr. Laitman: We’ll talk about that next time; it's about educating parents, not children.

Oren: Our time is up. Thank you very much Dr. Laitman, thank you Nitsa. Thank you everyone for being with us. Talk to your children, be their friends. All the best.

“A New Life”

(End of conversation)