The transcript has been transcribed and edited from English simultaneous interpretation, thus there may be potential semantic inaccuracies within it.

Daily Lesson (Morning) March 4, 2025.

Part 1: Baal HaSulam. Shamati 5. Lishma Is an Awakening from Above, and Why Do We Need an Awakening from Below?

Reader: We're reading from the writings of Baal HaSulam, the Shamati 5 article, “Lishma Is an Awakening from Above, and Why Do We Need an Awakening from Below?”. You can find the study materials in the Sviva Tova and in the Arvut sites. You can also send us questions live through our websites. So, Shamati 5,“Lishma Is an Awakening from Above, and Why Do We Need an Awakening from Below?”.

Baal HaSulam. Shamati 5. Lishma Is an Awakening from Above, and Why Do We Need an Awakening from Below?

Reading: (00:41) In order to attain Lishma [for Her sake], it is not within one’s hands to understand, as it is not for the human mind to grasp how such a thing can be in the world. This is so because one is only permitted to grasp that if he engages in Torah and Mitzvot [commandments] he will attain something. There must be self-benefit there for otherwise, one is unable to do anything. Rather, it is an illumination that comes from above, and only one who tastes it can know and understand. It is written about it, “Taste and see that the Lord is good.”

Thus, we must understand why one should seek advice and counsels regarding how to achieve Lishma. After all, no counsels will help him, and if the Creator does not give him the second nature, called “the desire to bestow,” no labor will help him to attain the matter of Lishma.

The answer is, as our sages said (Avot, Chapter 2, 21), “It is not for you to complete the work, and you are not free to idle away from it.” This means that one must give the awakening from below, since this is regarded as a prayer.

A prayer is considered a deficiency, and without a deficiency there is no filling. Hence, when one has a need for Lishma, the filling comes from above, and the answer to the prayer comes from above, meaning he receives fulfillment for his lack. It follows, that the need for man’s work in order to receive the Lishma from the Creator is only in the form of a lack and a Kli [vessel]. Yet, one can never obtain the filling by himself; it is rather a gift from the Creator.

However, the prayer must be a complete prayer, from the bottom of the heart. This means that one knows one hundred percent that there is no one in the world who can help him but the Creator Himself.

Yet, how does one know this, that no one will help him but the Creator Himself? One can acquire that awareness precisely if he has exerted all the powers at his disposal and it did not help him. Thus, one must do every possible thing in the world to attain “for the sake of the Creator.” Then one can pray from the bottom of the heart, and then the Creator hears his prayer.

However, one must know, when exerting to attain the Lishma, to take upon himself to want to work entirely to bestow, completely, meaning only to bestow and not to receive anything. Only then does one begin to see that the organs do not agree to this view.

From this one can come to clear awareness that he has no other choice but to pour out his heart to the Creator to help him so the body will agree to enslave itself to the Creator unconditionally, as he sees that he cannot persuade his body to annul itself completely. It turns out that precisely when one sees that there is no hope that his body will agree to work for the Creator by itself, one’s prayer can be from the bottom of the heart, and then his prayer is accepted.

We must know that by attaining Lishma, one puts the evil inclination to death. The evil inclination is the will to receive, and acquiring the desire to bestow cancels the will to receive from being able to do anything. This is considered putting it to death. Since it has been removed from its office, and it has nothing more to do since it is no longer in use, when it is revoked from its function, this is considered putting it to death.

When one contemplates “What he has in his work which he works under the sun,” one sees that it is not so difficult to enslave oneself to His Name for two reasons:

Anyhow, meaning, whether willingly or unwillingly, one must exert in this world, and what has one left from all the efforts he has made?

However, if a person works Lishma, he receives pleasure during the work, too.

According to the proverb of the Sayer of Dubna, who spoke about the verse, “You did not call Me, Jacob, for you labored about Me, Israel,” he said that it is like a rich man who departed the train and had a small bag. He placed it where all the merchants place their baggage, and the porters take the baggage and bring them to the hotel where the merchants stay. The porter thought that clearly the merchant would take a small bag by himself, and there is no need for a porter for this, so he took a big package.

The merchant wanted to pay him a small fee, as he usually pays, but the porter did not want to take it. He said, “I put a big bag into the hotel depository, which exhausted me, and I barely carried your bag, and you want to pay me so little for it?”

The lesson is that when one comes and says that he exerted extensively in observing Torah and Mitzvot, the Creator tells him, “You did not call Me, Jacob.” In other words, it is not My baggage that you took. Rather, this baggage belongs to someone else. Since you say that you had much effort in Torah and Mitzvot, you must have had a different landlord for whom you worked; so go to him to pay you.

This is the meaning of “for you labored about Me, Israel.” This means that he who works for the Creator has no labor, but on the contrary, pleasure and elation. But one who works for other goals cannot come to the Creator with complaints that the Creator does not give him vitality in the work, since he did not work for the Creator, for the Creator to pay for his work. Instead, one can complain to those people for whom he worked to give him pleasure and vitality.

And since there are many purposes in Lo Lishma [not for Her sake], one should demand of the goal for which he worked to give him the reward, namely pleasure and vitality. It is said about them, “They who make them shall be like them, everyone who trusts them.”

However, according to this, it is perplexing. After all, we see that even when one takes upon himself the burden of the kingdom of heaven without any other intention, he still does not feel any vitality, to say that this vitality compels him to take upon himself the burden of the kingdom of heaven. And the reason he does take upon himself the burden is only because of faith above reason.

In other words, he does it by way of coercive overcoming, unwillingly. Thus, we might ask, Why does one feel exertion in this work, with the body constantly seeking a time when it can be rid of this work, as one does not feel any vitality in the work? According to the above, when one works in humbleness, when his only goal is to work in order to bestow, why does the Creator not impart him taste and vitality in the work?

The answer is that we must know that this matter is a great correction. Were it not for this, meaning if light and vitality had illuminated immediately when one began to take upon himself the burden of the kingdom of heaven, he would have vitality in the work. In other words, the will to receive, too, would have consented to this work.

In that state he would certainly agree because he wants to satisfy his desire, meaning he would work for his own benefit. Had that been the case, it would never have been possible to achieve Lishma since he would be compelled to work for his own benefit, as he would feel greater pleasure in the work of the Creator than in corporeal desires. Thus, he would have to remain in Lo Lishma, since he would have had satisfaction in the work, and where there is satisfaction, one cannot do anything, as without profit, one cannot work. It follows that if one received satisfaction in this work of Lo Lishma, he would have to remain in that state.

This would be similar to what people say, that when there are people chasing a thief to catch him, the thief, too, runs and yells, “Catch the thief!” Then, it is impossible to recognize who is the real thief so as to catch him and take the theft out of his hand.

However, when the thief, meaning the will to receive, does not feel any flavor or vitality in the work of accepting the burden of the kingdom of heaven, in that state, if one works with faith above reason, coercively, and the body becomes accustomed to this work against the desire of his will to receive, then he has the means by which to come to work that will be with the purpose of bringing contentment to his Maker, since the primary requirement from a person is to come to Dvekut [adhesion] with the Creator through his work, which is discerned as equivalence of form, where all his actions are in order to bestow.

This is as it is written, “Then shall you delight in the Lord.” The meaning of “Then” is that first, in the beginning of his work, he did not have pleasure. Instead, his work was coercive.

But afterward, when he has already accustomed himself to work in order to bestow and not examine himself—if he is feeling a good taste in the work—but believes that he is working to bring contentment to his Maker through his work, he should believe that the Creator accepts the work of the lower ones regardless of how and how much is the form of their work. In everything, the Creator examines the intention, and this brings contentment to the Creator. Then one is rewarded with “delight in the Lord.”

Even during the work of the Creator he will feel delight and pleasure since now he really does work for the Creator because the effort he made during the coercive work qualifies him to be able to truly work for the Creator. You find that then, too, the pleasure he receives relates to the Creator, meaning specifically for the Creator.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (18:45) How can we get accustomed to coercive work, when the thief does not feel the taste, and the person has to believe that the Creator is satisfied with it, and get accustomed to such work?

M. Laitman: We see also in our lives there are many types of work that give us a feeling of heaviness when we do them, but specifically according to this feeling we are working, we are advancing. All depends on the importance, what is the profit I hope to gain from this work, and what is the loss.

Student: That's true, but in our life, there's always another thief that comes - I'm lazy, I don't want to. I mean, there's one thief who wants money or honor, so I go to work, so I'm replacing the thieves. Here, he speaks about something else.

M. Laitman: What do you mean?

Student: He says that a person should coerce himself to work even though in the will to receive there is no profit, he doesn't see any profit in the will to receive.

M. Laitman: Yes, but he has a deficiency. A person, nevertheless, he wants something, that's why he does it and he receives a reward.

Student: How do we get accustomed to such work when there is no profit in the will to receive and there is some deficiency and we only work for that?

M. Laitman: That depends on how a person portrays this work to himself, what is the reward, and that's how he makes it.

Student: That is, we should pick this reward all the time and then it becomes a habit?

M. Laitman: No, then you will, seemingly, work for the reward, rather than to move from your place, it's possible only in the condition that you're doing it for the sake of the will to receive. And when it is clear to you that you can be aimed at it, you can then start to move toward the work of bestowal.

Student: And then, what is the motive power, the moving force?

M. Laitman: The motivating power is that you're doing it for the sake of the Creator.

Student: Yes, when a person already works for the Creator, then it's clear. When he's working for the will to receive, that's also entirely clear. But that seemingly, the line in between, that's what I'm asking about. When he talks about a transition, when a thief is running and yelling, and then the thief feels that it no longer has anything that it can gain. So, how does the transition occur?

M. Laitman: Speak a little clearer. What happens to him during this transition?

Student: That is what I'm asking. What happens to him in the transition?

M. Laitman: First, he wanted to work in order to receive. And now he sees that he can be in order to bestow. And by getting himself closer to bestowal, he transitions to the direction of bestowal.

Student: I guess, it needs to be scrutinized more.

M. Laitman: Yes, we'll scrutinize it further.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (24:01) I take the example of a little child from the article. Because the habit becomes second nature in the work. A little child gets up, falls, he keeps walking, he gets up, he falls. He would have liked to be taken from one place to the other. But there is something that moves him to start walking. And then what we count is not how many times he fell, but how many times he got up. Can we take that as an example, so it will become a second nature? The work itself becomes second nature.

M. Laitman: No. No. Why would you need to follow this line?

Student: Because something internal is moving us.

M. Laitman: Something internal is moving us - is the Creator giving each and everyone a desire to bestow.

Student: And how do we encourage it between us so it will be strong within each one much more than he can get, relatively?

M. Laitman: I don't know what you mean by “relatively”.

Student: A person as an individual versus the group, as a collective. So, to receive these powers we can do it as a society or as a Ten. So, how do we make that point of the transition which we now talked about?

M. Laitman: I don't understand.

Student: Where is the sesame seed that each one can bring in to cause this strengthening in order to switch from the nature of a receiver to the nature of a giver?

M. Laitman: It's when the Creator shines to him.

Student: How do we make the Creator shine to the Ten so that we…

M. Laitman: There has to be a prayer from the Ten.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (26:36) If the Creator is hidden from me and I don't feel that I'm giving Him contentment, how can I always remember to work for the benefit of the Creator?

M. Laitman: There's nothing to do here. At each and every step you need to remind yourself that you are working for the sake of the Creator.

Student: What can strengthen in me this action?

M. Laitman: Your friends, who also think this way and work this way.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (27:26) He writes, this is why one must do every possible thing in the world in order to be rewarded with “for the sake of heaven”. Then he can offer a prayer from the bottom of his heart and then the Creator hears his prayer. The question is - later on he gives the example of the porter with the suitcases - how do I check that I'm making the right efforts, and I'm lifting the small bag, not the big suitcase?

M. Laitman: What's important about your work is who does this suitcase belong to? If it belongs to the Creator, then even if it's the smallest, you still stand to gain the most and that is why you pick it up and you carry it.

Student: How do I check to whom the bag belongs? How do I check that?

M. Laitman: Who does this bag belong to? You check it according to your will to receive, the extent to which you're not attracted to this bag, to this work.

Student: Yes, I'm not attracted to it, but specifically, this small bag the inner effort to lift it is much greater, to lift that small bag. Now many times, when you hold that small bag you don't manage to hold it for a long time, and then it falls. The question is if at any given moment when we hold that small bag, which is an inner effort to be in the right intention, in prayer, and it falls from us, and we don't manage to do it for a long time. Is any such stage considered a complete prayer? A prayer from the bottom of the heart?

M. Laitman: It's called “a prayer”.

Student: A prayer. When is it considered a prayer from the bottom of the heart?

M. Laitman: Well, it comes from the bottom of the heart. The heart is the center of, the seed of desires. And when you work from that point, it means that this is how you're praying, from the bottom of the heart.

Student: The friend drew an analogy to hold on to the intention, this prayer that he's talking about, that small bag. I feel like I'm holding on to some weight, and it's not easy to hold it. And at some point, I become exhausted, I don't manage to do it anymore. And then it falls. And then I accumulate strength again. And again, I hold it, I lift it. When does this stage come? When this exertion ends? Because there is also the stage of getting exhausted, of friction. When it falls, you lift it. It falls, you lift it. And you don't see anything that gives you any feedback, anything shining for you. So, when does the stage come when it ends, this process?

M. Laitman: Each one has a different vessel.

Student: And the feeling, what feeling should I feel when I hold it? And as far as I'm concerned, I want to hold it all the way. But sometimes it falls. So, what kind of feeling should a person have that he's holding it, even though he doesn't see any progress?

M. Laitman: His progress is measured by his ability to hold on to the bag and not letting it fall.

Student: The advancement is in the effort, the effort itself?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: So long as there's effort, it means that we're advancing?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (32:01) He writes that this means that one who works for the Creator has no labor, but to the opposite. This is after the proverb of the Sayer from Dubna. Then, after the other proverb of the thief, he writes: “But when the thief, meaning the will to receive, doesn't feel taste and vitality in that work of accepting the burden of the Kingdom of Heaven, in that state, if one works with faith about reason, coercively, and the body becomes accustomed to this work, meaning against the desire of his will to receive”. So, he's presenting two pictures that are different. On the one hand, he says there's no labor, and Rabash also taught us that if you labor - then found, believe it. So, why does he write that there is no labor, no exertion?

M. Laitman: Because he's working against his will to receive.

Student: Isn't that considered exertion? Against the will to receive?

M. Laitman: Yes, it is exertion.

Student: That's what I'm asking about, that state that he writes about in the beginning, where there is actually no exertion, no labor. What is that state? One who works for the Creator has no labor, but to the opposite. Why does he say that?

M. Laitman: Because in truth, the one who works for the Creator is connected to the source of power. He has forces.

Student: This is what should actually motivate us, so long as we're working for the Creator, and that's our gift.

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (33:59) I feel that the suitcase that Rav left me is my friend. I exert so that my friend will enter the King's palace. In the beginning, I seemingly support him, but later on, I discover that my friend is actually the one carrying me. He has the powers. He is taking me to the King's palace. It's not that I'm taking him to the King's palace. What is this kind of work, when I discover that I'm not supporting the friend, but rather the friend that, seemingly, I was supporting him, he's, actually, the one who was carrying me to the King's palace. What is this inversion in the work?

M. Laitman: As much as you ascribe true work to your friend, accordingly, you are incorporated in him, and his efforts are, actually, doing the work.

Student: Is it okay, like that? If this is what happens to me, then it's okay to do this kind of work? Where with every friend, suddenly, I discover he's the one who's taking me and supporting me, and it's not that I'm supporting him?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (35:17) I want to go back to that statement that one who works for the Creator has no labor, but to the contrary - pleasure and elation. If I feel difficulty, I feel exertion and many efforts in the work, then how can I invert it to work of pleasure and elation and not such a burden?

M. Laitman: Think first, who are you working for?

Student: And if I bring the Creator into the picture, it doesn't diminish the difficulty.

M. Laitman: If you place the Creator, if you put the Creator in the work correctly. In the picture, I'm sorry, correctly, then you stop feeling the difficulties in your efforts.

Student: What does it mean to bring the Creator into the picture in the right way?

M. Laitman: It's the Creator who receives your work, and from Him you receive feeling and pleasure.

Student: Then what will be the exertion, what will be considered for a person the labor in such a state?

M. Laitman: What will be considered labor are all the efforts. That he is expending all the efforts, he's expending them in order to reach the correct efficiency.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (37:09) On page 518 at the end he writes: “one must know, when exerting to attain the Lishma, to take upon himself to want to work entirely to bestow, completely, meaning only to bestow and not to receive anything. Only then does one begin to see that the organs do not agree to this work”. So, if I try in my work to depict that state, that he writes about here, only to bestow not to receive anything, then, sometimes, you can reach some emotional depiction of that and, immediately, you feel resistance. Question about how and what? But, sometimes, or usually even, you can't really reach an emotional depiction of it - to bestow not to receive anything. Okay, I mean, the heart doesn't jump. What does it depend on, because if the heart does jump then there is work, but otherwise…

M. Laitman: That has to do with the correction of the heart. That's what I'm hearing.

Student: I'm not asking about reaching that state, I'm asking about at least depicting it. That state that I'm longing for. Sometimes, I'm not even allowed, I can't even imagine it.

M. Laitman: So, they don't let you, you reach this point through a different path.

Student: What does it mean, a different way?

M. Laitman: Not necessarily by head-on, facing the will to receive head-on, but through different efforts.

Student: Which are?

M. Laitman: Which are - connect to your friends, incorporate in them and flow together with them.

Student: To connect to the friends in these actions. These are actions, but there is also an intention above them, right? Why am I doing it?

M. Laitman: You're doing it in order to save yourself from disconnection from the Creator.

Student: Then, can we say that the resistance in connecting to the friends, the difficulty with that, this replaces the…

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (39:59) If I see that a friend is working in coercion, I should help him, I should take him out of it or leave him in it?

M. Laitman: If the friend is working by coercion, this is his choice. He chose this path to do something for the Creator. And he's working correctly.

Student: If I see that he's not getting any pleasure, and I can give him high spirits, and he will come out of coercion, and he will have some pleasure, should I do it or not?

M. Laitman: There's no answer for it. You can't know precisely when a friend is receiving pleasure, and when he doesn't. It's the inner feeling of the friend.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (41:15) I'm asking about the question we started to discuss lately, where we raised our point of connection together with the Creator. Up to now, we spoke more in the direction of, I help the friends, the friends are helping me. And I'm asking, I'm not sure we can do it already, but to get rid of it and develop a new point of relation between us. That I work for the friend, the friend works for me - we work together for a new relative point in the connections between us, in these new connections. It's a little different than what we were accustomed to doing until today.

M. Laitman: So?

Student: The question is, can we do it? I'm not certain, I'm asking.

M. Laitman: Why are you not certain?

Student: I don't feel the general spirit. You talk about it a lot, we are incorporated in it a lot, but I don't feel that spirit yet. I'm not certain we can do it.

M. Laitman: Okay, we'll talk more about it. We will talk more about it.

Question (Spain 1): (42:41): How can a person get used to working for the sake of the Creator?

M. Laitman: If we depict to ourselves that the Creator is the center of creation, and all the forces in creation all come from Him, then to be connected to Him, and to direct myself to Him, it is not so difficult.

Question (Women Latin 26): (43:37): How can we detect in our daily lives the necessary deficiencies in order to reach Lishma?

M. Laitman: Again?

Student: How can we detect in our daily lives the necessary deficiencies in order to reach Lishma?

M. Laitman: This is through many exercises.

Question (Women Turkiye 8): (44:19): The article says that there is no difficult work for anyone serving the Creator. There is only joy and gladness. How do you reach such a state?

M. Laitman: We try to perform actions of bestow, and when we enter into them, into such actions, then we begin to feel what is close to the Creator, what is far away from the Creator, and to what extent we ascribe ourselves, relate ourselves to that. This is how we reach the calculation.

Question (Women Petah Tikva 25): (45:15): How to ensure we are working to give contentment to the Creator and not out of a desire to feel pleasure from serving the Creator?

M. Laitman: If our intention is to truly give contentment to the Creator, we want to become incorporated in that, be in that, with our intentions, with our thoughts, with our actions. Then we feel it, that we are there inside of Him.

Question (Women PT12): (45:56) Does the Creator give a person the strength, forces, or does he get those from the friends?

M. Laitman: The Creator fills the person for the fact that a person performs operations towards the Creator, and this is how we advance.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (46:38) I am just reminded that in the past you gave us these two analogies: one is that we need to assume that we are in an ocean of love, that's how you said: “ocean of love”, and I remember that you used to give this example of a hologram, our states are like this hologram, when you look at it you don't see anything, but then you soften your gaze, and then the picture opens up to you. Why am I saying it, because many times you have these states that are not pleasant, but then you understand the opportunity there, that oh, there is an opportunity, but then it closes, it shuts down, it comes in very short flashes, so to speak, and you can’t always notice it. The question is, how can we develop this subtlety that will allow us to look beyond that stereographic picture and see the complete picture?

M. Laitman: Try, talk about it.

Student: This ocean of love, that you mentioned, we have to remind ourselves all the time that this is a situation, and look for it?

M. Laitman: Well, depict to ourselves that this is how the Creator relates to us.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (48:30) He gives this instrument, this tool here, this calculation, it says: “When a person answers to his soul, what will he get from laboring under the sun, he will see that it's not that so difficult to enslave oneself to His name for two reasons: one, anyhow, meaning whether willingly or unwillingly, one must exert in this world, and what has one left from all the efforts he has made? And two, however, if a person works Lishma, he receives pleasure during the work, too”. Meaning, he seemingly, convinces the will to receive, simply - look, it's worthwhile for you to work for the Creator. The question is, is this only between a man and himself, or should one talk about these things in the Ten?

M. Laitman: Also in the Ten. Why not?

Student: If those two things are going to be important, you can get accustomed to this work.

M. Laitman: Get accustomed? I don't think so, because the Creator changes the conditions all the time, and then you see how much you're not in it, and you don't care, you don't feel that tip of your work, the direction. But it is worthwhile.

Student: And the friends will remind me, I'll certainly forget about it, but that's going to be the conversation in the Ten. And we're labor anyway, so let's labor in something worthwhile. And if we get to it, it's great pleasure. Simply explain it this way to the will to receive.

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (50:38) He writes that in order to reach Lishma, you need an awakening from below, from a person.

M. Laitman: Yes, which is called prayer.

Student: And a prayer is considered a deficiency, and without deficiency there is no filling. So, what is the prayer for Lishma?

M. Laitman: The prayer for Lishma, that he will have the power to work in order to bestow contentment to the Creator.

Student: How is this prayer formed in a person, so that it's truly a reflection of his deficiency?

M. Laitman: All of our appeals to the Creator are, all in all, so that we will have a connection with Him. And this connection can only be in the desires, ours and His. To the extent that I have my own desire, and to the extent that in my feeling I feel the Creator's desire towards me, in those desires we can interconnect with each other. And in this way, keep working.

Student: He keeps emphasizing here in the article that if a person has a need for Lishma, the Creator gives him the filling.

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: This need, how do you form it in you? How do you acquire it, the need for Lishma?

M. Laitman: The need for Lishma, you receive it from the Creator. It's just that it's not born within you, just like that, from zero. But rather because you do want to reach giving contentment.

Student: What causes the Creator to give a person Lishma?

M. Laitman: When a person, from all the incidents he has in life, he gathers them and raises them to the Creator.

Student: In practice, when I have an incident in life, what does it mean that I raise it to the Creator?

M. Laitman: That you receive this desire and through it you want to attain the Creator.

Student: During the incident itself you want to attain the Creator, what does it mean to attain the Creator during the incident?

M. Laitman: Yes, through the incident itself.

Student: Yes, but what is it, what does it mean that I attain the Creator during the incident?

M. Laitman: That you attained the root that is now turning to you and you can grasp it and get hold of it.

Student: All the incidents that come to a person in life, is this the way to connect to the Creator?

M. Laitman: There is None Else Besides Him.

Student: Inside those incidents that a person is going through throughout his lifetime, what does it mean that he realized or used this incident correctly? What does he do?

M. Laitman: I didn't understand.

Student: Numerous incidents are taking place in a person's life. What does it mean that he managed to realize that he used it correctly?

M. Laitman: That he connects through it to the Creator.

Student: And if he can do it, does it mean that he is in Lishma?

M. Laitman: Possibly, or on the way to it.

Student: What gives a person the Lishma, if this is still not called “Lishma”?

M. Laitman: But no, he's on the way to it. It's possible that he didn't yet meet all the conditions.

Student: Let's say, a person is experiencing some incident and he's able to relate it to the Creator. And he can be on the way to Lishma. So, I'm asking of a person who's in Lishma, how and what is he different than a person who's on the path to Lishma, or only on the way to Lishma?

M. Laitman: I don't understand.

Student: What is the difference between a person in Lishma and a person who's on the path to Lishma?

M. Laitman: A person who is in Lishma is capable of reaching a connection with the Creator in a mutual form, frontally.

Student: And the one on the way to Lishma?

M. Laitman: Means that he's on the way to Lishma.

Student: On the way to Lishma, you're able to reach a mutual connection, a frontal connection with the Creator?

M. Laitman: No, not to such an extent. But nevertheless, you are scrutinizing the direction.

Student: And in a person in Lishma, the connection is mutual all the time?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (57:35) When a person is going through his personal states, or through the Ten, his reaction is either, as I understand, either gratitude, there's a state where he's grateful, there's a state where he's asking for help, and there's a state where he praises the Creator. More or less these three states, right? So, how to connect those to Lishma? Does it have to be in such a way that, if I'm asking for help, then I'm going to get nothing in return? If I'm in gratitude, there should also be nothing connected to me, because gratitude should not be connected to me at all. No self-benefit whatsoever, right? Or how to interpret that? How to connect gratitude to Lishma? How to connect a request to Lishma, so they won't be egoistic?

M. Laitman: When you want to connect with the Creator, to His thoughts, His desires, His operations towards the created beings, you want to be incorporated in that, and you want to be immersed in them.

Student: But where is the Lishma here? Let's say, something happens, he doesn't feel good, he's asking for help from the Creator - a request, a prayer, a demand. How is that connected to Lishma? Because I understand that if it will not be connected to Lishma, it will remain one-sided. Every person is asking for something, but if he's not getting a response, then it means that, perhaps, his request is egoistic. And that's why he's not getting a response, because if it were Lishma, it would have been a two-way street. There would be a dialogue, an exchange, right?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: So, that's the examination, that the request is correct, that there's the answer of the prayer?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: And how do you combine that with gratitude and praise? How to connect that to Lishma as well? The request, I can understand that I can ask for a friend, so that's seemingly not related to me. But if it's praise and gratitude, how am I not to relate it to myself?

M. Laitman: You cannot do it, because for certain, this passes through your qualities, and then it is as it is written, all my bones shall tell. That all my qualities participate in that, and support it, and then the Creator, through this action, will rise.

Student: But with such an action, there will certainly be some personal gain.

M. Laitman: So?

Student: If there is personal gain, the Creator is not revealed, there's a disparity of form.

M. Laitman: No, no. This is not how it works, a one-way street.

Song: (01:02:20)

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How Do People Influence?

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