Morning Lesson April 30, 2023

Transcription is made from simultaneous translation, which leaves a possibility for differences in the audio.

Part 1:
Lishma is called “truth”, Lo Lishma is called “a lie” - Selected Excerpts from the sources. #9

1. Rav’s Introduction: (00:30) Any state that we’re in we need to juxtapose it with something; by that we can measure and weigh, engage with it. So if we’re talking about Lo Lishma then we also have to put it against some kind of understanding of what Lishma is and then say we’re in Lo Lishma. Meaning it’s a big issue that we recognize the relationship between these two things somehow. The more we appreciate and respect Lishma, Lo Lishma is also critically important as we understand that we’re on our way to Lishma yet we’re still missing some important quality and we’re making efforts to attain it. So to define what is Lo Lishma is not just saying that we’re in it, no. Also the entire world is not in Lo Lishma, it is simply in a corporeal, beastly discernment or distinction. Whereas Lo Lishma is when we realize to what extent and how much we’re still in Lo Lishma and that we have to make efforts, and what kind of efforts more or less that we understand that we need to do in order to achieve Lishma. So Lo Lishma is like doing something and measuring what we’re doing and we can somehow, somewhat indicate how much we’re still wrong with respect to arriving at Lishma, what are we still missing. Therefore Lo Lishma is not such a simple thing. So we have to also try to hold on to that all the time and then from that start coming closer to Lishma. This means to detach from our beastly perception, our corporeal perception and approach a state where we always want to imagine ourselves on the way towards Lishma. Then bit-by-bit we’ll start attaining the state of Lo Lishma.

Reading Excerpt #9 (04:20). “We can understand the great importance..”

2. R. (05:08) Meaning that he distinguishes that Lishma comes from the Creator and Lo Lishma doesn’t come from the Creator. And that’s his mistake for now because both come from the Creator.

Reading on. (05:26)

Reading Excerpt #9, again. (06:37)

3. S. (08:50) What does it mean that the Creator dresses in the clothing of Lo Lishma?

R. There is no force working besides the Creator so in whatever state we’re in the Creator determines the situation and He is accompanying us through all the states so that we continue forward. Therefore even though we think the Creator is not in our actions and feelings this isn’t the case. We’re always under the Creator’s control and we always have to make an effort to ultimately attain Him. And by that we’ll bring Him contentment.

4. S. (10:05) You said before that Lishma, the contact with the Creator the person tends to attribute but in Lo Lishma he makes a mistake and doesn’t attribute it to the Creator. What is this mistake?

R. We always need to carry out our connection with the Creator from whatever state we’re in. In a state of Lo Lishma we don’t feel the Creator, we’re not connected to the Creator so to speak but we have to make efforts to get closer and discover that there is None Else Besides Him. Whereas in Lishma we already discover Him and relate ourselves to Him to some extent and thus, we further and further broaden the connection between us.

S. How can I check myself that in the Lo Lishma I don’t make this mistake and I attribute everything to the Creator. What is the gauge, what is the yardstick?

R. Only through the group. The more connected you are to the friends and you discover yourselves in contact also from among you towards the Creator, this is called the correct direction of your efforts, that you will ultimately reach Lishma.

5. S. (12:16) In other words the whole world is following the Creator's commandments and the Creator is clothed in Pharaoh?

R. Let's say so.

S. And in Lo Lishma we have a goal but Pharaoh controls us nonetheless?

R. Yes.

6. S. (12:47) So if I understand according to the excerpt that there are two states of Lo Lishma, one is unaware of itself and one where he is aware of himself. Is this correct?

R. No, we’re talking with respect to the person. If a person determines according to his qualities, his perception that he’s in Lo Lishma then it’s Lo Lishma. Meaning he still can’t adhere to the Creator to some extent.

S. If he’s aware that it’s Lo Lishma then what’s incorporated in it? It also means that he knows there is Lishma. If he’s aware that it’s Lo Lishma in respect to what it is Lo Lishma? So the Lishma is implied here isn't it?

R. No, that’s not how it is. A person longs to reach Lishma, adhesion with the Creator and feels that he is not in adhesion with the Creator as he would like to have. Therefore that state is called Lo Lishma because he still feels that his will to receive governs him and directs him.

S. The excerpt says that he does everything for the Lo Lishma but he does it because the Creator commanded him except now he is not rewarded with feeling that the Creator is the commander so he thinks that Lo Lishma is the commander. In other words he’s not aware that there’s a level beyond or am I missing something?

R. Put it that way for now.

7. S. (15:01) What does it mean for one to appreciate his actions in Lo Lishma?

R. That he weighs his actions in Lo Lishma, he understands that they also come from the Creator to bring him closer to Lishma. That means that he appreciates it, that this is the path from Lo Lishma to Lishma.

8. S. (15:39) It seems like Lishma is a mirror where a person looks at himself and discovers that he’s in Lo Lishma. So how can we accept this mirror and make it more polished?

R. That’s by connection with the friends. To the extent that the person is connected to the friends then he has more of the vessel of Lishma.

9. S. (16:21) Can we say that the stage Lo Lishma is love of friends and Lishma is the love of God?

R. No, that’s not it.

10. S. (16:54) The state of Lishma and Lo Lishma, do they continue to exist in spirituality according to the scrutiny or the screen?

R. Yes, we can say that, more or less that’s how it is.

11. S. (17:27) How can a person know that he achieved Lishma, what do people who achieve Lishma feel?

R. When he arrives he’ll see that it’s Lishma because this revelation itself will show the person how much he’s already in the state of truth.

12. S. (17:54) If we attribute our actions to ourselves is this Lo Lishma?

R. Why? The actions that we relate to ourselves is that Lo Lishma? No, Lo Lishma is not that simple. Lo Lishma is that I aim for Lishma and I'm still in some deviation from it.

13. S. (18:35) In spirituality are the two states, do they exist in the person in parallel according to the screen that one can maintain?

R. No, a person can be in one of two states, Lo Lishma or Lishma.

14. S. (18:55) What determines the quality of connection between the friends?

R. The measure of connection between them.

15. S. (19:11) We learn that we go from the love of people to the love of the Creator. Can we say that in that respect if we do the commandment of the ten then we feel the love of the Creator?

R. Yes of course, everything appears in the connection in the ten. The level of connection with the ten is essentially the level of attainment of the upper world.

S. So what does it mean to do the commandment of ten?

R. Connection in a single heart, then we feel that we transcend the egoistic perception and enter connection between us. When we nullify the ego between us and the perception of reality in a single incorporation, connection, that already is spirituality.

S. When I achieve connection with the ten whether it’s through an act that I initiate or an act of the ten which is an act of connection, what do I want to feel in this action?

R. A single force that nurtures you, aims you, directs you, you wish to discover it.

S. And this operating force is this the Creator's commandment?

R. The force that works within you when you’re connected is the Creator Himself.

S. Because we usually call a commandment a correction. Is this connected or..?

R. Mitzvah consists of our states, our desires, connections, prayers until we come to our shared desire, and in that shared desire the upper force is revealed.

16. S. (21:34) What should a person emphasize within him, how much he doesn’t have enough adhesion and devotion or that he’s grateful for what he has?

R. First of all to be thankful for what he has. In that he denotes the proximity to the Creator, that’s one. Two is more deficiency, how much he wants to get even closer.

17. S. (22:18) Why does he thank the Creator at the end of the excerpt? He's thanking Him for clothing in the clothing of Lo Lishma.

R. Because this is the help, the aid, the means to reach Lishma. So the Creator made this degree in such a way, designed it so that through that we can reach Lishma, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to directly leap to Lishma. In Lo Lishma we somewhat feel the illumination of Lishma, mostly it’s Lo Lishma and then we recognise that we’re on the way, in the middle. And then we can scrutinize what we have, what do we lack, what do we pray for and this is how we get closer. Meaning we are given tools to get there and so we have to appreciate Lo Lishma.

S. To continue concerning connection in the ten, I feel that the words connection in the ten or connection between us when I look at the friends and try to look within the words connection between us and I feel that there’s this glass wall. Okay, I look at them, I already know them, we’ve been through experiences together and now we’re saying again connection between us. But we’re already connected, there’s nowhere else to jump to. How do I see every time that there is so much more to discover in the connection between us, so much more to do?

R. You have to try to feel this wall that is between you and don't let it go, it doesn’t matter what. You’re trying to cancel it each time, more and more. And in accumulating all these efforts you ultimately make this wall or this boundary disappear. Then the more you become incorporated in a single heart you begin to feel spirituality.

S. How do I dissolve this wall, this wall exists already?

R. It exists in advancement, yes.

S. So I know this friend. I spoke to him about the importance of the goal, I spoke to him about the connection between us, we read articles, we went to Congresses, assembly of friends, he’s right here next to me. What can I do today to connect even more to someone I know so well already?

R. This depends on opening the heart for which you have to turn to the Creator and ask. It’s not that you can do it on your own and there’s no one who’s excelling in this but rather whoever gets more help from the Creator is more successful. And why does the Creator help someone more than someone else? That depends on some data, how much his point in the heart is greater, how much he prays, how much he has some conditions. So one has to try to really reach the state where our connection becomes revealed.

S. Why does the Creator give such a taste of dust to the words of connection between us?

R. That’s because we discover how much our nature is opposite to connection. The opposite of connection is essentially our entire life, where everyone just wants to live in and of themselves with no connection to others. Taking advantage of others, that's a different story but not to connect, that’s a result of the conditions that were predetermined in the beginning of the creation. He certainly made it precisely in order for us as created beings to feel a phenomenon only through the opposite phenomenon. And so we have to recognise how far we are from each other, disconnected from each other. From that we’ll begin to get closer and then we can measure the proximity between us and thus find that connection between us and with the Creator. The Creator is the measure of connection, the measure of proximity, the measure of mutual complementation between us, that will be called the Creator.

18. S. (28:40) So how do we measure the connection between us?

R. To the extent that your heart is willing to leave what it cares about and care about what your friend cares about.

S. Yesterday we had a tens meeting. We were trying to go with the topic of getting together that we talked about in the lesson. We tried to bring our hearts to the friends, we talked about the importance of the goal. How at the end of the meeting can we measure if it took another step forward in the connection between us? We had meetings in the past where we could say that we were more powerful, more meaningful. How can we measure that we are moving forward in the connection between us another step?

R. I don't think that we can exactly measure it because to measure it means you have to be in two opposite states, both in connection and disconnection and we don’t have either of them for now. So we simply want to do whatever we can to get closer to Lishma, that’s it.

19. S. (30:12) In the day to day practice, how can we live in the world without being so influenced by the falsehood of the world and maintain our intention to connection Lishma strongly?

R. We absorb from the world all of the falsehood that’s in it, and it exists in us. In addition to that we also belong to an upper illumination that shines on us and keeps us somewhat above this world so that we have some distinction between the spiritual world and this world. And here we have to add our labor, our efforts in order to increase the connection between us despite the forces of separation, the separating forces. And thus, further and further in this effort to connect to each other, we have to continue until we achieve the initial, true connection.

20. S. (32:02) What do I pray for in Lishma, what exactly?

R. I pray to be in connection with the friends so that in that connection we’ll discover the upper force that unites us and in that state we want to discover contentment to Him, that we want to bring Him contentment. From the connection between us and from our connection between us to Him, to the Creator, more than that is not needed.

21. S. (32:57) Continuing a previous question, this spirit in the ten, this reality that happens every time we meet brings us closer and plays with us and on the other hand this force also pushes us apart all the time. So it turns out it is basically this kind of waver in the ten and this force does with us whatever it wants. We’re not working against the force, opposite the force, the work is work with the friend next to you and that’s it, you’re not working with the force?

R. Okay, we have to mostly work with the friends, to discuss between us, to connect between us in such a way that we feel inside each other, all of us together. To the extent that we advance towards this connection we’ll begin to feel the upper force that resides within us. Our sensitivity will rise and then we’ll begin to feel that we can detect Him between us. This is what we need to do and that is certainly in our hands. The friends are next to me, all the conditions of disconnection exist between us and all we have to work on is trying to connect and in our efforts try to reach a single heart.

22. S. (35:15) Living in two states Lo Lishma and Lishma and the prayer develops in the state of Lo Lishma. Is the prayer born out of the state of Lo Lishma?

R. Yes, of course. What’s most important for us in each and every state we’re in is to achieve a common request from within us, from between us towards the Creator. This should be our main target. Where do we arrive at one man with one heart in our actions, intentions and plea towards the Creator.

23. S. (36:17) In some of the connection events we come to a state where we feel that the light shines and makes us feel the trash within us, the distance, the hatred. Can such a state be called Lo Lishma?

R. Not yet, not yet, when I identify myself in just an egoistic state that’s not Lo Lishma yet. Lo Lishma is also weighed against Lishma which I long for.

24. S. (37:10) Whenever I try to enter the Lishma state I get more and more under the influence of the ego. How can we overcome the ego and work for the friends?

R. How? We’ve talked about it many times. We simply need to understand that we have no way to progress from the animate level to the human level if we don’t connect. We have to connect and in this way to advance more and more in connection. There is no other means.

25. S. (38:15) It is written that if I believe there is None Else Besides Him, I need to appreciate the action. What does it mean to appreciate the action?

R. That I am really performing the actions because I hold onto there is None Else Besides Him.

S. Meaning it's all in the intention, it doesn't matter what action I always have to aim at the Creator?

R. Yes.

26. S. (38:54) You said that we come to such a connection between us that we feel the first contact with the Creator, that we are feeling in the connection that we want to bestow to the Creator. What does it mean that from the connection between us we feel that we bestow to the Creator?

R. We come to the connection between us by feeling that the main point of connection between us is actually the point where the Creator is and we are uniting around, connecting around that point. This is how we begin to have a grip on Him, to feel Him, to grab Him, to catch Him.

S. What you said that we’re beginning to feel that we bestow to Him or want to bestow to that central point..?

R. So, what?

S. So how does it happen that we bestow to that central point?

R. You want to shift to Him, to move to Him your feelings, your tendencies.

S. What is that central point?

R. It’s the point of connection between us, between our hearts and the Creator.

27. S. (40:46) It’s unclear. What’s the difference between the Creator being felt in the central point of connection between us and what he writes that the Creator dresses in garments of Lo Lishma. How could it be?

R. Why not?

S. What is then the difference between Lo Lishma and Lishma?

R. It depends on the quality of the connection between us not on something outside but on something inside, between us.

S. Unclear. What's the difference in the quality?

R. If between us there are still all kinds of egoistic calculations among the correct ones, the right ones, then we are still in Lo Lishma, in not for her sake. Out of this we still have to rise to higher levels where all our intentions, actions, thoughts will be directed only through the friends to the Creator.

S. Is it possible that when we have these egoistic calculations then the Creator dresses in that connection?

R. Yes, of course.

S. And from that point when we nevertheless feel connection to the Creator but it’s still an egoistic connection between us that exists, how do we advance from there to Lishma?

R. Prayer.

S. Prayer for what, he’s already revealed, what could the prayer be for this time?

R. If the Creator is revealed it means that we are already in connection with Him and there is no boundary between us.

S. But he writes that it can be in Lo Lishma?

R. In Lo Lishma the Creator is not revealed.

S. So what does it mean that He dresses in Lo Lishma?

R. He dresses in Lo Lishma but it’s not that we discover it. We receive it but it’s not that He’s revealed. In Lo Lishma the Creator cannot be revealed. The fact that His glory fills the world, that’s obvious but it’s not like we discover it. Let's continue.

Reading Item 10, twice. (43:43) “When the Creator shines to a person,..”

28. S. (48:08) Labor in accepting the burden of the kingdom of heaven, what is that?

R. Labor is something that the person does against his own will in the direction of connection with the friends and through them with the Creator.

S. The labor in accepting the burden of the kingdom of heaven?

R. Accepting the burden of the kingdom of heaven is the goal, you labor in order to accept the burden of the kingdom of heaven, when he is willing to accept any conditions that the Creator sets before him in order to carry out the will of the Upper One.

29. S. (49:15) It is written by labor in acceptance of the burden of the kingdom of heaven by choice and voluntarily, what does that mean?

R. He chooses to take upon himself the burden of the kingdom of heaven.

S. Is this an inner action or an outer action?

R. I do not know what is internal or external, it is an act, this is what the person has to do.

30. S. (49:59) By accepting the burden of the kingdom of heaven voluntarily, so he is free from the upper world and then he chooses by himself?

R. Through labor the person comes to a state where he has before him an opportunity to accept and assume on himself the burden of the kingdom of heaven.

S. He is then free from the influence of the Upper One because we spoke about a state before where the Creator awakened him and here he says there is this kind of a state where he accepts the burden of the kingdom of heaven by choice?

R. Yes.

S. How can it be that he's relieved from the influence of the governance of the Creator and he has real choice?

R. Can somebody explain to me what he's asking?

S. What is the choice between what and what?

R. What are we talking about?

S. It is written that he has a choice and only when he has the choice can he really acquire the degree of truth?

R. Yes.

S. And when there is an awakening from above he cannot because he’s immersed in the pleasure, so what is the choice here? What is the choice between what?

R. When the Creator shines to a person and the revelation of the light of the Creator is revealed and gives him an awakening in Torah and there is no room for choice because he already received the awakening already. The choice is when he has to go against his will because the pleasure forces the person to engage in that which gives him pleasure. And for this reason, at that time, there is no place for choice, that is clear, right? What is interesting and good and sweet for us, we do not need choice in this because we are drawn to it naturally. In such a state he is not obligated to believe in the Creator to such an extent that he says that without faith he will not do this, why?

Since what affirms the matter is another cause which is the pleasure. This is called Lo Lishma [not for her sake] since it is not faith that causes this action but the pleasure itself which is determining it for him and motivates the person to work and increase his good deeds. Clear so far? No questions about this, okay. In other words it is the pleasure that determines. Although the Creator has given him a great awakening for Torah and work he cannot ascend in degrees of truth by this since he acquired truth, meaning that the degree of truth must be acquired only by labor in acceptance of the burden of the kingdom of heaven voluntarily is one rewarded in climbing the degrees of truth, each time to a higher-level. In other words, if I have a great resistance and I have no choice I cannot rise and perform acts of bestowal. So what can I do if I cannot? I turn to the Creator, I ask Him and then when I get help from above, then I rise to the degree of Lishma [for her sake] this is all that’s written.

31. S. (54:39) It is following from the text that when the Creator shines upon the person it gives him an awakening, it’s not good?

R. What does it mean good or not? Good deeds are stages of progress, stages of climbing the ladder.

S. Yes but why does that even need to be? Apparently a person should work under concealment without revelation of the Creator, always have room for choice and to exert and to determine through effort. Why does the Creator give him an awakening and pleasure, what for?

R. By this he acquires new vessels. By this he acquires new vessels and in this way he can climb the ladder.

32. S. (55:38) What kind of awakening or pleasure is legitimate in the work?

R. By giving contentment to the Creator but I do not want to feel the pleasure of bestowing upon Him.

S. But I need to get a feel from something. It also says that there is an obligation to enjoy the act of bestowal. We learned it in the order of the assembly, that we have to enjoy the importance of the work and so forth. The person needs to have an awakening that fuels him to bestow?

R. An awakening from me being bestowing.

S. That does not mean that the Creator shines on him?

R. The light of Hassidim shines on him, the Upper Force shines on him, that you are capable of performing an act of bestowal.

S. So basically only the light that goes into a vessel of reception is not good but everything that has to do with Hassidim we should long for?

R. Of course.

33. S. (56:51) What does it mean to acquire the degree of truth?

R. What are you saying?

S. What does it mean to acquire the degree of truth, is it like buying a friend? Is this the same action?

R. Let's say it is similar.

S. How do you buy a friend, what does it mean to make this action of buying it?

R. I am willing to pay, I am making an effort, I'm doing a labor to buy what is important for me.

S. So let's say that through the friends I simply exert in order to connect to the friends and through that I acquire the degree of truth?

R. Yes, of course, it is like that.

34. S. (58:10) It looks from the text that only faith can take him out of the pleasure, meaning that to not work through the pleasure here he needs to receive faith of the kingdom of heaven. How does one assume that, receive that?

R. Of course, from above from the same source from the Creator he gets the power of faith, it is the power of Hassidim. When he is fulfilled by this force, by this power he can work with all the disturbances all the way.

S. How to ask for it, how does he need to identify that he lacks that, that he is in pleasure? How can he ask for faith?

R. Then he will not ask because he is in pleasure. There is no question here, one contradicts the other.

Reading Item #11 twice (59:28) “In the verse, I shall not die but live..”

35. S. (01:02:40) What does it mean, truth means to bestow?

R. It is the quality of the Creator that is why it is called truth.

36. S. (01:03:10) What is special about questions and answers that there is an upper value in them to correct the soul?

R. They have a supreme value for the correction of the soul that is why they're special.

Reading Item #12 twice. (01:03:37) “Cleanness pertains to the need..”

37. S. (01:05:42) The one who works out of love does the truth because it is the truth? What does it mean to work out of love?

R. When he already has the love of the Creator and to him truth is the superior value, he is in it, the highest value.

S. He does the truth because it is the truth?

R. Yes because love and truth are the same. It is the upper force, the upper law.

S. And this is the matter of cleanness?

R. Because he is clean he does everything because of love, cleanness means we have to be clean so there won't be a mixture of falsehood there when he wants to work on the path of truth. Truth is called Lishma [for her sake] as Maimonides says, one who works out of love and engages in Torah and Mitzvot [commandments] and follows the path of wisdom not because of anything in the world or because of fear of harm, and not in order to inherit goodness, rather he does the truth because it is the truth and the good will finally come because of it. So?

S. What motivates him?

R. So what motivates him is the truth that it is the truth and he doesn't need anything besides this. Truth is the highest level; it is the name of the Creator.

38. S. (01:08:00) He wrote about Lishma that it comes by efforts, by labor it is those additions that a person needs to find each time of efforts otherwise he can't reach Lishma. It seems like as the times goes by the person comes to the path, organizes his life accordingly and organizes routine based on all the conditions the Creator gave him and as the time goes by it seems like these additions, these additional efforts, labors they kind of dwindle, there seems to be like there's less place for additional effort and that seems like that’s the condition?

R. What condition?

S. The condition for Lishma is that extra labor the person finds and makes each time. Now from looking at the process it seems like the more you advance these places of finding that extra labor diminish.

R. Correct.

S. So what do you do with this equation?

R. You search, you pray for the Creator to give you more possibilities to work, that is all we have. It is said that at the end of correction there is also great sorrow because there is nothing more to do.

39. S. (01:09:37) With regards to the cleanness, that one has to clean without the mixture of falsehood: what characterizes the cleanness? The person feels himself more and more dirty, the more you advance, more corporeal, material, lowly in his will to receive?

R. Yes but on higher levels on higher degrees it's not on degrees that he had before; he feels the subtleness of the matter.

S. Right but he doesn't feel clean. When can a person say, now I am working cleanly? If he always feels that this load of the dirty will to receive that he carries? And one's inclination is greater than oneself and so forth. When can a person say I'm not working with cleanness?

R. He's constantly working in cleanness but he doesn't reach cleanness itself; it is infinite.

S. So what is the cleanness that is already considered Lishma?

R. That what he cleans off of himself becomes Lishma [for her sake] and by this, he is adhered to the Creator to some extent.

S. What he cleans from himself becomes Lishma?

R. Yes of course, how else does he do it, these are all the connections.

40. S. (01:11:32) So a person needs to discover that in the way that his will to receive is always lying to him and ask to be cleaned from that? He doesn't know what he's going towards but knows what he does not want and this is called cleanness, when he understands the lies that lead him?

R. What is revealed in him, from the lies, from the dirt he wants to clean. That's it.

41. S. (01:12:10) Following that, what is more relevant for our work because in item nine which we started the lesson with, it says that a person needs to relate everything to the Creator as the cause. And in the other items, most of the other texts, we see that the work is to see that he's not there, meaning they're working against the negation, but item nine says, no, the person needs to determine that the Creator forces and obligates him by the way of.. the question is practical: When we want to move towards Lishma, we do the actions of Lo Lishma between us, now we need to determine what the Creator commands us or that we're not truly in the connection of Lishma and we're not truly clean, so it’s many discernments at once?

R. The Creator is always the Obligator.

S. So where does everything else fit in, where the person doesn't see that he's in Lishma, he's still in order to receive, he's not clean?

R. Even though he sees it this way it is still the Creator arranging and organizing it this way for him.

S. How can you hold this entire system? Sometimes, many times we focus on the connection. We just heard in item nine again that if you don't relate it to the Creator you won't be in gratitude and in the right direction, won't have that help from the Creator. Now we also need to add to that, even though we do all of that, we are not really in that; it is many things. What do we do?

R. Attribute everything to the Creator including himself and it will not be difficult.

S. What does it mean to relate everything and as well as himself?
R. Adhesion as much as possible. Just attach yourself to the Creator and that is it.

S. But what does it mean, how can a person adhere only through connection in relating his actions to the Creator, right?

R. Yes, reach devotion as much as you can imagine.

S. And when he discovers he's not in that, he’s opposite to that?

R. Pray and ask and still try to get closer.

S. And how do you still relate these states to the Creator where he seems to be following the command of the Creator?

R. The Creator is giving him all these conditions out of which he can come to a request.

S. And also when he's opposite he is fulfilling the commandment of the Creator?

R. Of course, of course these are the conditions that the Creator gives him so that out of these conditions he can ask for adhesion.

S. So maybe now the question became clear: When a person makes an action of connection, he can say okay, the Creator gives me both the resistance and the opportunity to make some effort to connect and I want to relate that to the Creator but when a person is not in that action of overcoming of doing something, prayer, thought about the friends and something and so forth, how can he relate these actions to the Creator when he's not making an action of his own?

R. So he can't.

S. So what do you do in those states?

R. There's nothing you can do, just continue until you come a little closer and a little closer to the state so you see that all those states come from the Creator.

S. And what is the starting point to come out of that state that he doesn't relate to the Creator?

R. Connection with the society so the friends will direct him to understand that it's coming from the Creator.

S. And then what is the next step?

R. And then when he feels, understands to some extent that it's coming from the Creator he will strengthen his connection with the Creator and in this way emerge from the situation. Okay, good.

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