Part 2: On the Verge of Lishma - Selected Excerpts from the Sources. #1.

Reader: We’re going to read selected excerpts in the topic, “On the Verge of Lishma”. You can send questions online and you can also find the study materials there.

Reading: (00:26) 1. Baal HaSulam,  Shamati, Article No. 20, "Lishma [for Her sake]"

Concerning Lishma [for Her sake]. In order for a person to obtain Lishma, one needs an awakening from above, as it is an illumination from above and it is not for the human mind to understand. Rather, he who tastes, knows. It is said about this, “Taste and see that the Lord is good.”

Because of this, upon assuming the burden of the kingdom of heaven, one needs it to be in utter completeness, meaning only to bestow and not at all to receive. If a person sees that the organs do not agree with this view, he has no other choice but prayer—to pour out his heart to the Creator to help him make his body consent to enslaving itself to the Creator.

M. Laitman: Questions? 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:48) What brings prayer?

M. Laitman: Prayer? Probably, the condition of Lishma that he discovers how necessary it is to attain.

Student: So, what's a person's effort? 

M. Laitman: He has yet to attain Lishma, he's before it, and then he feels.

Student: So, a person starts attempting Lishma or prayer?

M. Laitman: In the attempt to reach Lishma. 

Student: And that should bring him to a prayer? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: What's that attempt to reach prayer that a person has to start with? What is that action? 

M. Laitman: The act is where he will see to what extent he is before attaining Lishma. And that, in truth, that's all he lacks. 

Student: How can someone reach those discernments? What should he do to think that?

M. Laitman: That's how he develops.

Student: And how can he increase it? What should he do? We talked about an action that comes before prayer. The attempt to reach Lishma. What does that mean to try and reach Lishma?

M. Laitman: Lishma are actions in order to bestow. And where he tries to reach that, and sees he's incapable. And then he turns in all directions to search where he can find support to attain Lishma. And that's how he feels himself. That's what's written on the verge of Lishma. And these states can be for a long time.

Student: And the prayers, they come and go, it's every time?

M. Laitman: Yes, each time he feels more, feels less. As much as he lacks being in Lishma.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (04:52) Lishma is giving. Why do we taste that the Creator is good when we give?

M. Laitman: When we engage in giving, we receive in return from the Creator a good relations to the extent in which we invest in giving. 

Student: And this tastes good to us? What is this taste? 

M. Laitman: You cannot share that from one to another or even resemble it somewhat. It's good, sweet, they say. Sweet.

Student: And what are the senses we are tasting the Good, coming from the Good? 

M. Laitman: The senses that usually we taste such flavors, that it's good for us from them. How can you say it? There's an impression that we feel bitter, and there's an impression where we feel sweet. And here it's talking about that feeling of sweetness that leads to us also to be impressed by the deed.

Student: But these are, of course, spiritual senses. How do we build spiritual senses?

M. Laitman: How do we build spiritual senses? Because we're in a connection between us, and we all have one spiritual root and then even though we're very different from one another, there's one spiritual root, and if we receive an impression, we begin to feel how this impression draws us to one state, to the summation, and the impression from one source leads us to one action. And we begin in it to reach our source.

Student: And this impression of one source, how do we get there, to this impression?

M. Laitman: When we connect our impression to one and want to connect that impression to one, we invite from Him an action that will make us into one action, and then from understanding one another and feeling one another, we will also all feel what we're adhered to. 

Student: And this will be the sweetness of the Creator? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: We all will feel it? 

M. Laitman: Yes

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (11:07) What are the organs? 

M. Laitman: Organs are the desires, thoughts, intentions that are in a person. 

Student: So, if I want to smoke, until I don't smoke for the sake of the Creator, so I have to pray that it should be corrected? Because every desire…

M. Laitman: I don't understand what you're saying. Say a sentence that's clear and complete. 

Student: He says that only when all my organs agree to work for the sake of the Creator, until then, that you can only pray to correct it?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: So, every small desire, everything should be corrected? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (12:20) It's also about the previous topic and this topic. To incorporate with the friends, well, a lot of friends since the war started, it's the most difficult state I ever had. There's no money. There's even to work under the table. I can't find anything. It's the most difficult time I had. But we read Shamati, the first article. It says that you have to organize your order of pain and suffering, not to be sorry for yourself, to be sorry for the Shechina that can't bring the created beings closer to her. And if you really feel that you want to give, you want to help, you want to bestow, and there's nobody to bestow to. So, what do you do with such a sorrow that you feel that you came and there was no one there? What to do with that sorrow from bestowal? You want to give and there's nothing to give. 

M. Laitman: You feel sorry. There's nothing you can do. Because you pray, you're impressed. You want to discover a deficiency from a stranger and you don't see anyone, and then that thing that you would like to give is burning you from within. Yes. That's the sorrow of the Shechina.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (14:14) When he says, one who is rewarded with Lishma it’s an awakening from above. 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: So it sounds like it doesn't depend on us. It's an awakening from above. Whenever from above they want, we'll be rewarded. If not, we won't be. So how can you see the connection between our work and our preparation to the fact that there's like a reward? 

M. Laitman: Lishma is an awakening from above and we need upon that to build the awakening from below and then we will have a desire and the forces to receive the awakening from above and for that, to clothe on that. 

Student: Awakening from above. It sounds like it has nothing to do with the preparation from below. Because that's the reason.

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: But no, it's an awakening from above, he's saying. From above? 

M. Laitman: Yes. So? That's not a flaw that I awaken from above. Of course, I have a source, I have the Creator, and He does with me what it's written about me there.

Student: So, where is the cause and effect here? 

M. Laitman: The cause is above. The upper force and the result is below, in me. That's why He's the Creator and I'm the created being. 

Student: The Rabash says, well, I don't want to confuse, but he says that when a person starts something, whatever awakens, First of all, to give gratitude that he was awakened from above.

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: Then he starts grabbing the end of the line and starts working with gratitude, and prayer, and so on. Meaning, everything is an awakening from above. Nobody would be sitting here if he wouldn't be awakened from above. And many times. So, why is he saying that Lishma is the awakening from above? 

M. Laitman: That this is a special awakening from above that is demanded of a person to open himself and develop and sustain the connection with the upper one. 

Student: When he says that it's like a reward, that's how we have to see it, as a gift?

M. Laitman: Yes, it's not for everyone that it comes to. 

Student: How can you give gratitude for such a thing?

M. Laitman: To the extent in which you're connected to it, try to find for it words of blessing, of gratitude. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (17:33) It's written that Lishma is an awakening from above, and it's not what a person's mind can understand. So, the question is, each one here has a point in the heart. We came here, so what is the point in the heart? How did we get here if we still don't have Lishma? We're here now, we came here, we're in the path to reach Lishma. We're still not in Lishma, so how can the state be called that the state we're in? We're not in Lishma, but,?

M. Laitman: On the way. On the way. Each has an illumination from above, and each is aimed by this illumination towards the Creator.

Student: And why did the Creator only choose these people? 

M. Laitman: That you won't know. Later.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (18:59) How much does luck play a part here? It sounds like it was a reward. There's more luck than actual exertion.

M. Laitman: Altogether, these are things that are according to the root of creation.

Student: If it's according to the root of creation, the root of the soul, it sounds like it was already predetermined. That a person's exertion isn't what determines when he's going to enter Lishma, if at all?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: So why do we have to exert? If a person doesn't know when or if he gets a reward? 

M. Laitman: Without this, you cannot attain. 

Student: I think that's what the friend tried to scrutinize. Where is a part of the exertion that we learn all this practice from Rabash. How does it work with what Baal HaSulam writes? 

M. Laitman: You come, you're incorporated in a great force. You need to learn, you need to incorporate with the friends with several actions, several physical actions and spiritual actions, and gradually you kind of scrutinize yourself how you can reach that source that sends you these questions, all kinds of opportunities, and that's how it will crystallize in you. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (20:58) I want to continue the friend’s question. He asked correctly, because Lishma, as much as you want to reach it, you discover you're not in Lishma, and we need to deal with it. That's why it's very hard to understand Lishma. You can't tell a person, do one, two, three, and you'll reach Lishma, no, he has to deal with all these states. So, how can we open this topic of Lishma, it's not clear?

M. Laitman: Each time we need to awaken the Creator to advance us to Lishma, and it's this way until it happens. That's it. Until it happens.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (22:10) He writes that a person's work is a deficiency in a vessel.

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: So the Creator constantly awakens us to exert so we can accumulate a deficiency. How do we, how can we be more precise on what we're lacking? How does our request for Lishma become more precise because the Creator constantly awakens us, it's like our senses became dull. How is the awakening, and how do we make our request more precise?

M. Laitman: We will have to be as close as possible to the Creator, and to show ourselves ready to receive anything that comes from Him and this way advance.

Student: When a person asks strong enough, and precise, so the Creator sends them towards corrections, or the prayer itself is a correction?

M. Laitman: It may be that the very prayer of a person is the correction, and in it he discovers the attitude of the Creator towards him, and his new place. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (23:51) When a person reaches Lishma, a new observation opens, he can see differently and feel differently?

M. Laitman: Of course.

Student: Could it be that the freedom of choice becomes less when he reaches it?

M. Laitman: No. 

Student: When Baal HaSulam says that Lo Lishma is even more important than Lishma so that means that there's more of a difficulty for a person, why it's more important, or he understands less, that's why he's in like this fog?

M. Laitman: No, no, no. I don't know. Read and see where it's written. I'm not saying it isn't written like that, but you have to see again in what context it's written.

Student: I'll find it. It's not in this one. All right. 

M. Laitman: Well?

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (25:00) How is it that the correction of our perception of reality brings a correction of the world?

M. Laitman: We live in the same world, which is why it brings forth the correction of the whole world.

Student: How good it is that the Creator is good and even better that I feel it. The question is, should everybody feel good?

M. Laitman: Everyone.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (25:37) The efforts of the Ten and the whole group to attain that first point of one man with one heart. This preparation, this exertion, is it directed towards Lishma? The exertion in this place?

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Student: So everything we scrutinize around this topic, instead of implementing, we should take it there? 

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (26:38) You also refine us and make things more precise together with the Creator so we will constantly be in the right direction. Is there something that is important for us to know?

M. Laitman: Because we perform a pretty permanent order of things.

Student: A year ago, seemingly the same action, maybe the yearning grows, but is there something that we can refine more and be more precise in our work? Something that we haven't done so far? 

M. Laitman: What you read in the sources of Baal HaSulam and Rabash, and if you see that there's more places to complete, that's the work.

Student: Is it the frequency of what we're trying to do? Is it to continue? 

M. Laitman: Also frequency, also the intensity of the deficiency.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (27:54) It's written, because of this, upon assuming the burden of the Kingdom of Heaven, one needs it to be in utter completeness, meaning only to bestow and not at all to receive. It sounds like there are two stages. First, where all the organs will agree, meaning a certain correction, and only then to receive the burden of the Kingdom of Heaven. Are these two stages, not one?

M. Laitman: It's not written. I don't see that it's written. 

Student: That in order to receive or to assume the burden of the kingdom of heaven, one needs it to be in utter bestowal. So first we need to be completely in bestowal, that's like a first stage, and only then he can receive the burden of the kingdom of heaven? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: So it sounds like it's two stages here? 

M. Laitman: There's more. Before the first one there's another stage. Well, that's it.

Student: Yes, so we need to concentrate on the first one, the first stage, the deficiency, and perform a correction?

M. Laitman: Yes. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (29:29) It's felt to me that the convention is like salvation. It's like this point, because it exists somewhere, then the longing for it gives meaning, and hope, and strength now. The fact that I know that there will be a convention, meaning if we wouldn't have that point, it would appear like it's static and remains the same. The question is whether it's clear, is it okay that this is how it's felt in me, or do I need to overcome above it? This is not a salvation. You must always be hopeful and feel that there is always something new, that there is always something to aspire to. Or is it okay that the convention is there to give us this feeling?

M. Laitman: I don't understand the question.

Student: What is the meaning of the convention, which will be in two months, for now? How is it supposed to influence me? What am I supposed to get from it now? 

M. Laitman: That we want to get to the convention at least in one line.

Student: What is one line? 

M. Laitman: That we need to equip ourselves with the right, good one toward Lishma, that in the coming convention we will achieve it. 

Student: This is the work of the whole world Kli. All of us need to reach to feel that. 

M. Laitman: There is nothing to ask about that right? That’s clear. 

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (31:53) If the Ten is a body then to reach Lishma is the work of the Ten or a personal work? 

M. Laitman: No, personally a person cannot get there. Only in connection with the environment.

Student: If so, he is asking, what are the stages that the environment needs to operate in order to reach Lishma? 

M. Laitman: I think that whoever yearns for the purpose of creation, feels how it goes through him.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (32:58) Every friend needs to say to himself that in the coming convention he will reach Lishma?

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: What to do with the thoughts that the time has not come yet, that he is not ready yet? 

M. Laitman: Change them.

Student: What does it mean that those thoughts should be replaced there?

M. Laitman: Yes. That’s very important because after the convention, I think we will already start ascending to the next degree.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (33:44) First of all, to start with what you just said. After the convention, we will start rising to the second degree. It’s like Baal HaSulam says, if we want to jump from something, you have to aim higher. What is that second degree that we’re destined to go to?

M. Laitman: It’s going to confuse.

Student: Okay, so what is before us now? 

M. Laitman: Before us now is to try to restrict ourselves into one man with one heart and in that one heart to discover, to reveal a place for the Creator. 

Student: When we say that we are entering Lishma, to the verge of Lishma. I don’t know, this word Lishma is still not emotional. How to replace it? When we say Lishma, what needs to be invoked in me? What is this?

M. Laitman: Just as you want to bring a gift to the one you love. 

Student: Can we place demands to the Creator? We, in the convention want to reach Lishma. Or is this naive?

M. Laitman: Why?

Student: Because it’s a gift. 

M. Laitman: That’s raising MAN. 

Student: But to receive Lishma is already a gift. It’s not that I define when He will give it to me.

M. Laitman: You will define according to your intention to reach Lishma. You'll find the place in your desires a place that will be Lishma. 

Student: And this degree of Lishma, what is it? The whole Kli begins to connect, it feels common, it's me, it's my Ten. What happens here in this degree of Lishma?

M. Laitman: I don’t understand.

Student: Who feels Lishma? Does a person begin to enter Lishma, do we all, each of us start to enter it? The Ten? What levels are we talking about here? 

M. Laitman: How much in each one, how much each one is close to accepting Lishma.

Student: And I want to demand for me to reach Lishma? For all of us to reach Lishma? 

M. Laitman: Yes.

Student: What is it to restrict to being one man in one heart?

M. Laitman: It's a sort of connection of all those who want to attain a connection between them as one man and be incorporated in one Creator, and that's the only thing they want. 

Student: What does he write that Lo Lishma is more important than Lishma? 

M. Laitman: Because in Lo Lishma, a person sees, knows, understands, accepts that he still hasn't reached Lishma, and he still has a few more desires, intentions, thoughts that need to be corrected. But a person who thinks that everything is corrected and worries that Lishma he deserves, so obviously it's a corruption.

Question (Petah Tikva Center): (37:43) My friend sent me this excerpt from the article that says that we need to know that the degree of Lo Lishma is an important, a very important degree, and we need to appreciate in it the Torah and Mitzvot and Lo Lishma. And our sages said that to extent in which a person understands to give importance to the work in Lo Lishma, that it's such a measure of importance that he needs to know that Lo Lishma is even more important than Lishma where a person gives the value of its exaltedness. Because a person cannot appreciate the observing Torah and Mitzvot in Lo Lishma, certainly the use of the Torah needs to be Lishma. So, it's like that, when we go through certain fog until the state of Lishma, then we can see where we are, what we're coming to, and then it can be important because already he was in this fog, and is that right? How is it correct? 

M. Laitman: First, let's find the north. That we need to advance towards Lishma and to advance to that direction, as it's written, we can do it through steps of Lo Lishma. Then we'll discover that we're in Lo Lishma, and we'll discover that we want more and more, and according to that to reach Lishma. Until we get there. Until we get there.