A New Life

Talks on the new work world

Episode 111

Oren: In this series of talks we are discussing “the new world of work.” We all spend most of our lives in the organization for which we work, and here with the help of Dr. Laitman, we are developing a new awareness to the entire field of business, of our time spent in the organization we work for, as well as of the interaction between us and the people around us and in general towards life.

Each time we shed light on a different facet within the lives of organizations in general, and with the help of Dr. Laitman, we acquire new insights, new understandings of how we should adapt ourselves to the process the world is entering, the process of integration and the connection among all the elements within the big picture comprising the whole.

In our previous talk we started discussing the policy of marketing according to the integral approach, which was very interesting. We would like to dedicate this talk as well to the policy of marketing according to the integral approach.

Nitza: First of all, we are undergoing a parallel process with you; in practice we are contending with the challenges currently before us as a company and an organization, alongside the fact that we are actually working with you on a strategy and marketing policy, and acquiring new insights. In the previous talk we reached an understanding that I’d really like you to expand upon, because I have a feeling there’s something huge here. You spoke about the topic of marketing and about the matter of the “desire for pleasure,” and it suddenly brought me back to the days when we studied the whole subject of marketing. It appears that the whole topic of the marketing process has undergone some evolutionary process in accordance with the evolutionary process which we went through as a human society. Actually, there was a point when marketing dealt more with production; it was that way following the Industrial Revolution, when people started engaging in manufacturing and later on the focus shifted more towards the product itself.

In fact, the whole world was open, which means there was a lack for almost everything; therefore whatever was manufactured always had a buyer. In other words, they didn't think about the customer’s need and desire, rather they simply manufactured products and the focus truly was the development process itself. Then, several years ago, from product development they reached what we call today modern marketing. This is still the approach studied to this day.

What does modern marketing say? “Conduct a market survey, understand exactly who you are facing, using your well-developed sense of smell, what he/she needs and requires, and if you know how to create this match then you win – this is supposedly your success.” That’s why there’s a lot of investment in such surveys.

Now, all of a sudden you come and seemingly introduce to us the next generation of marketing. That is the feeling I left the last show with. Even modern marketing is no longer truly modern, because it still brings some kind of outdated need. That is why I would really like for us to continue and develop it because I’m suddenly feeling the clear advantage that I, as an organization and a company, will go through this insight together with you, and that it will truly form in me the ability to take it forward. Of course, we are still around the discussion topic of marketing policy, but suddenly I realize how necessary it really is. That’s why I’d like to expand upon it, in order to truly understand a little more.

The problem is that until we create new senses in us, a new approach, we won’t be able to develop any change. Therefore, the entire organization’s integral education is actually the most important stage. It’s not that we are learning, experiencing, and later on trying to adapt that to our regular lives; rather, here it’s the opposite: we need to adjust our regular lives to what we study. The more we become experts in it, the more we’ll succeed.

What does that mean? We also need to develop it ourselves, just like we do now through advertising, we try to create a new desire within the consumer, “It would be good for you to have this and you should have that, "We see that this approach no longer works because we are not touching the person's basic desire. Previously the desire was to buy and derive pleasure and only then did we have to convince a person that this is what he wants because one’s desire changes entirely and takes a spin in a new direction, to a new source of pleasure, for the source is particularly in connecting and unity and there in the center he finds his fulfillment. Therefore, we now need, after we feel what the true potential need for it actually is, we need to educate the consumer, to advance him toward that need.

Meaning, whoever produces the new things, must also educate the consumer in integral education, since the consumer already has the beginning of this new desire to derive pleasure from the connection, yet this desire isn’t so clear; he doesn't understand it that much. That is why he’s somewhat flustered; he cannot enjoy the old consumerism, yet he hasn’t reached the new one. Just as the organization is learning the integral method for production and sales from me, it also needs to learn how to educate the consumer to acquire the new things, to develop him, educate him to enjoy my new products.

For that purpose, after we learn what is called the “integral world,” we thus have to integrate the consumer into our same circle and show him where the source of fulfillment for his new need truly exists, although it is still undeveloped and needs to be developed. Then we show him that what we’re offering is really the answer to the new deficiency beginning to form in him.

That is why our new products which will all be in this new spirit of connection, need to trigger connection amongst people and how to find pleasure there and use those fulfillments; enjoy them. We need to develop the new environment of consumers, where they find enjoyment rather than seeing us as salespeople, but as partners who are together with them in that same pleasure we're filling them with, and that’s our pleasure as well. When we are together with them in the integral system, if they are not deriving pleasure then neither do I. In the integral system the ending and the beginning are together.

Meaning, the consumer derives pleasure from my pleasure, I derive pleasure from what he does, we are essentially together in a process where everything is shared. I can also see it lately just how much various organizations wish to show the consumer how they produce things, how concerned they are about the consumer, how they seek to make him happier, the extent to which they produce healthier things, more comfortable, closer to him. The difference is that participation is missing here, but the approach is already starting to somehow move in that direction.

Even car manufacturers make big films on their factories, how they assemble cars, how concerned they are about everything and they also truly want to involve the consumer in each and every stage; there’s already a beginning in all those films as well, they wish to involve the consumer emotionally, the extent to which they are concerned with each and every step of production, for the consumer to see the extent to which they seem to be together with him in that pleasure, which he will then derive from the product itself.

Here we need to take one more step forward, and actually make a unified system of production and consumption, so consumers will feel that we care for them more with every step and that we are with them in each and every stage of usage and pleasure. It’s not that we made the sale and they don’t even know where it came from and why, but rather we’re truly close. Similar to a mother, a homemaker, who serves food on the table and looks at how we eat and takes pleasure in seeing how much we eat, and we need to show her our response how delicious the food is; that entire interaction should exist here.

That means we need to be together with them in creating new flavours, in creating new consumption habits, in creating the new interaction amongst us, out to them and back to us so it is as one. This will not happen if we don’t educate the consumer in an integral manner like us. Therefore, the company developing a certain product must care for those same consumers so they will be more personally connected to it, for them to feel them, for them to be so emotionally connected to the organization that they will be as partners.

After all, we are talking about how the entire world is a desire for pleasure, so when we produce something, our pleasure is not in the fact that we produced and sold, our pleasure is not from the profit; rather, our pleasure derives from feeling that you are deriving pleasure, and we hope that you also feel that this is our pleasure. Meaning, there has to be a mutual connection here. There is extensive work here for psychologists and sociologists on how to do that, but actually this is the source of the new approach.

Oren: I would like to give you an example that I experienced as a consumer last week, and if you could reflect for me how you would expect an organization which developed in the integral method to act towards its consumer in a similar situation. So tell me whether or not it serves us. For a long time I have needed to get new eyeglasses and I really didn't want to change my glasses, because I knew that it would complicate things until I adjust to them. Until I reached a point where I could no longer see anything and had to change my glasses. After six weeks of delays when I hardly saw anything with the old glasses, I went and changed my glasses a few days ago. Now I have new glasses and am not yet used to them, and I can feel that in one eye they didn’t make the lens properly.

Now, as a consumer what am I thinking? I’m a customer who already purchased, paid, and everything is okay. They gave me a reasonable price, I paid, everyone is happy. Now for the past few days I’ve been upset and say to myself, “Will you go back to the shop where you got your glasses and tell them, ‘Listen, I feel that it’s not really me’?” What am I dealing with? I have no energy to go back there and see the owner start giving me a face, “This yes, that no, go, come back, you need to wait, you bent them.” I already paid and I’m not enthusiastic about the negative interaction that I’m going to experience there.

So I say to myself, “How many days have passed? Three days, wait a little bit more.” I convince myself, “Take it easy, everything is all right, soon you’ll adjust.” I don’t want to go back there because I know that I have no mother waiting for me there who will say to me, “What’s wrong, my dear son? Come, I’ll warm it up for you, I’ll make it cooler, I’ll add something.” I know that even if he provided good service, when I go there it’ll be unpleasant and I have no energy for those unpleasant things.

Why did I bring that up? Because you say that the key to success in this new world of business is for the organization to feel it needs to give the customer a feeling that they are partners; that my pleasure as an organization which developed something, marketed, sold, invested, brought it to you, I am enjoying that. I look at you drinking the glass of water, I enjoy it. You are enjoying my product? You have delighted me.

With this approach, had I purchased the same glasses from such an organization, how would I feel right now? If I went back to them again, what would they tell me? After all, just between us, he would have to spend more money because if he made me an inaccurate lens he will have to make me another one at the expense of what he earned from the first transaction. In other words, how does such an organization respond to a dissatisfied customer; an organization whose satisfaction equals to the client’s satisfaction, and also needs to ensure that the client feels that by using and enjoying the product he’s also pleasing you – he is satisfied and you have succeeded.

Meaning that you must return to them because otherwise you won’t please them. You have to derive pleasure, you can’t lie, that’s not good. Would you lie to Mom? That’s not good either. If we are talking about the truth, it obligates you to return and say what is wrong. He has to really feel your sorrow, and rejoice in his ability to bring you pleasure. He knows that through this he ‘buys’ the customer, that it already ties you to him, you’ll certainly stay with him and recommend him to thousands of people, you’ll be his best publicity, you’ll now work for him. It pays for him to make you a new lens, instead of just paying for an ad, because you will promote him and we know that the best promotion is word of mouth.

Oren: How will he give me such a feeling?

That is why I say he has to educate you as well.

Oren: That is exactly what I'm asking. Let’s say you’re the organization and I’m the customer; how will you as an organization ensure that your clientele has such trust in you or such a feeling of positive interaction? The negative interactions are what bother me because I simply have no energy for it.

No, as an organization I have to publicize those things. How I treat you, what my expectations of you are, I demand pleasure from your pleasure, because I depend on it. I ask of you, “Come back here until you’re happy.” It’s not that I have to, but I’m willing to, I want that, until you’re 100% satisfied. What would make you 100% satisfied? When I delight in your pleasure. It’s like a mother. We always need to draw an example from innate relationships existing in nature, between people who are connected to one another into one body.

If you come to him, he will tell you, “Thank you, it's great that you came, because I’m not happy when you’re suffering.” Through such exercises we will truly reach a common feeling later on.

Oren: Between the organization and the customer?

Between the organization and the customer as well as amongst people. By doing this I will truly start feeling whether you’re happy or not, wherever you are. I will develop such an attitude and you will develop the same towards me, like a mother who feels what is going on with her child, and even more than that. So it’s worth it for me.

Oren: Can the organization feel the customers' satisfaction or dissatisfaction as a result of what it’s doing?

Do you have any idea what an echo effect this will have, what feedback? Do you know that the more they work together it’ll create such a wave all over the world, the way this attitude will become known, since it will also be adapted to the general network that’s being revealed? I’m not going to need any advertising, only that. This advertising will work both like word of mouth and in the inner network; people will suddenly begin to feel they’re buying pleasure from me and the pleasure is mutual.

Oren: Let’s take our example with the glasses; who is going to have a common pleasure? It’s a personal item. If you made me good glasses or even made a mistake and corrected it, I’m looking for the mutuality here. You’ve given me good service, I understood that. You’ve given me service like a mother to her child, which means you acted according to the integral approach in which your satisfaction is my satisfaction, the same thing.

Meaning, your desire and my desire are becoming as one desire.

Oren: Is this the joy of sharing?

Yes, and in that common desire we are both deriving pleasure, I from your product and you from my product. I take pleasure in your satisfaction, in your pleasure, and you take pleasure in my enjoyment from having done that for you. We have an example when I’m at my mother’s and I get a meal from her that I’m accustomed to from my childhood, so in that I’m deriving pleasure together with her.

Oren: So it means that every product, every service, whatever one person transfers to someone else, an organization to its customer, can contain within it the added value of sharing among people?

In that is the essence of the pleasure, because we thus create a common desire which is much greater than every individual’s desire. And then we all begin to open, reveal the new and integral source of pleasure, exponentially.

Nitza: I’m looking at this one desire, it’s like a formula. Meaning, so far there was only your own desire.

In love, don’t we want it to be that way? Let’s say, even plain physical love between a man and a woman, don’t we want it to be as one body? Don’t we want it to be a true common pleasure, that I enjoy her and she enjoys me?

Nitza: Right. When you taught us about relationships, you said that in order to create a common desire, mutual concessions are necessary and then we become close and build a common desire. What happens between the organization and the customer?

There are concessions here as well; I don’t simply give up my profit and he doesn’t simply give up on his attitude towards me. Rather, we want to create a common relationship between us, we need to enjoy the same pleasure in one place.

Nitza: I need more clarification on that.

I'm watching him.

Oren: Who are you? Suppose you are the organization and he’s the client..

Yes, he is the client. I watch him and see that I now have a chance to create a new niche of pleasure. My profit is not money; my profit is the new common pleasure, because I already come here after the integral education which for me is the pleasure in life. Just like you say that we spend our whole lives at work, now my work becomes a source of pleasure.

So I see that he has a problem with his vision and that it gives us a chance to connect, I as a service-provider and he as a consumer, for the sake of creating our common space where both of us can derive pleasure – not from the glasses that I make and he buys, but from the way our desires can connect here and as a result the pleasures can connect as well. This is how we find a new connection, and in this connection we share the pleasures. It’s like enjoying the bowl of soup I receive from my mother, like in my childhood, or when I receive her care and everything I have towards her.

This means that my factory and his glasses are only an opportunity, an excuse to create new pleasures. We spoke about it, that people are now looking for new pleasures not in the product itself, but rather that through those products we can connect to one another. Our world is already abandoning the goods; it’s becoming more integral, more virtual. We will gradually produce, sell and buy the products less themselves, we will be more concerned with the spirit of things, the satisfaction in them. We certainly need all of this material, but only as a reason, only as a topic.

Nitza: Regarding this relationship we just discussed, we spoke about a relationship that is forming, some kind of connection between the consumer and the organization.

It must be as one. It’s like a mother and child. Let’s say I visit my mother who lives in Toronto, and I’m hoping to get some dish from her, something she’ll make for me.

Oren: A Yemenite soup with fenugreek, probably.

In her case it could be Gefilte Fish, it doesn’t matter. But something special? Let’s say original Mama's latkes (potato pancakes), so I am looking for those latkes. And my wife is just as good at making them, so the same warmth, that care, is what I am going to give her by being there and telling her how delicious it is.

Oren: The world is undergoing a new phase and therefore it must also manifest in advertising; we need to show that not only one person enjoys the product or the service we are providing, but always several people.

As one.

Oren: Who are connected as one. But you emphasized this, even in commercials there should always be several users shown, not one. For instance, if you’re selling a fishing rod, sell a kit for some collective activity. Now I see that there are two different bases of sharing which I’d like to lay out.

First of all, as an organization developing according to the integral method, I see that several people will derive pleasure as a result of a future purchase from my organization. This could apply to certain products but not necessarily to others, such as eyeglasses. And then you told me that there’s another axis of sharing here, which also nurtures you with pleasure from the new quality which is a positive connection among people, and you switched to the cooperation between the customer and the seller, the organization, the one providing him with service.

So the customer, I with my glasses is one, and you as an organization, as a seller so to speak, are two. This also provides an integral added value to what you are doing, although the product is a personal one. There are many products which are personal and not all of you will be able to enjoy my eyeglasses.

We are not enjoying the eyeglasses, we are enjoying the connection and care.

Oren: The organization and the customer.

Yes.

Oren: Meaning, that not only several consumers are going to derive pleasure, but cooperation is also with a single consumer with a personal item, me with eyeglasses and you as an organization. In other words, those are different types of sharing.

And even more so. If we, amongst us are deriving pleasure, then it spreads in the network, because we are all currently connected together in an integral network. This means that through this we are adding a positive wave to the entire network of connections which is now being revealed.

Oren: Let’s say I write about it on my Facebook wall and upload photos.

Even without you telling. We are revealing that we’re all connected, that no matter where they are and whether they want it or not, people are suddenly feeling interaction. We see how people or communities or countries can’t detach from one another. It’s an underground connection. It’s a connection existing amongst us, for we simply belong to one another. And then even this supposedly personal connection amongst us, this integral common desire that we created, already exists within this network in its correct form. It already became the integral power supply for the entire network.

I promise you that as a customer you’ll see that once I have that kind of interaction with you, people will suddenly be drawn to me, they will want to buy specifically from me and not from others. They won’t know why, but they will feel that here they are receiving pleasure. We are subconsciously pursuing pleasure; not the product itself but the pleasure that it gives us. And then they’ll start coming and all of a sudden I will feel that, “Look how many people want me.” It’s worthwhile for me to fix your glasses, I want to check everything carefully and make sure you’re not afraid to come back and you want to show me that you’re satisfied and truly enjoying my product, otherwise you’re stealing my pleasure. You have to come and you should feel unpleasant if you are suffering. How would you be with your mother? Somehow you would fix the matter.

Oren: As a customer of all sorts of services and products, I can say that the most bothersome thing about every purchase interaction is that I know that the organization or the store or the supplier or the plumber, no matter who, or the car mechanic, on all levels and types and kinds, I know that they’re cheating.

Some do it less, some more, I know that there’s their sake and there’s my sake and it’s a conflict of interests. Even if he’s pretending to do things in my favor and giving me service and so on, it’s only a wrapping to the conflict of interests between us and I’m not happy about it. Today there are many things I simply don’t purchase, I don’t buy, I don’t do, not because of the cost, not at all. I need it and I will procrastinate doing what I need to do, or there are things that I don’t buy only because of those negative interactions. On all levels, from the first salesperson I meet, to the one at Customer Service who will make my life bitter later on. Meaning, we’ve become used to a culture of hostility.

Let’s say that in six months you will improve according to the method of integral education and start treating your clients and products differently, do you realize what kind of revolution you are going to start in the market?

Oren: Yes, as a customer I guarantee you that I would never leave such an organization.

So what could be more attractive for me in order to receive the service of integral education right now?

Oren: If I speak as an organization or an organization’s management team, I think we’re trapped in archaic perceptions and it’s hard for us to unleash the shackles in our minds in order to digest the potential of our development as an organization, in our interaction with our clientele and the possibility to flourish, grow, expand and develop.

But this would never work for someone who hasn’t received integral education, because you could try a thousand ways to provide the best service, but if you remain in this pure egoistic way, then you won’t be able to evoke any revolution in the market.

Oren: It won’t work as “let's pretend.”

No.

Nitza: This reminds me that we have a professional team we're working with, who said that many of the elements you spoke about are very familiar. For instance just like in a family, so here they gave an example that on the bulletin board it’s written that today this one has a birthday and that one has a birthday, and it seems there’s some sort of attempt to create connection.

But you’re actually saying that trying to implement new ideas using our old, individualistic mind, will not work.

No.

Nitza: Meaning that the words sound the same, but the intention is totally different.

The desire is not connection; they remain each one in their own individual egoistic desire. Here there must first of all be a new common desire.

Nitza: This is the condition that allows us to start feeling what you are talking about.

Yes.

Oren: Which is what? Let’s clarify it, define it.

A new common desire that you and I are enjoying the same thing, the unified open and direct interaction between us. Your pleasure and my pleasure are the same thing. And it’s not that they just speak like that in commercials and write it on billboards, but rather it has to be true.

Nitza: I think that at this point we’ll move onto the topic of Part B, which is the policy of marketing. We are still in a meeting about marketing policy.

Oren: Part B is the marketing policy according to the integral way of thinking, and we’ll move onto the next stage.

Nitza: I would like to remind you that the first stage was in fact the product and our ability to develop a product or service in accordance with the integral method.

Now after we’ve educated ourselves, the first thing we should do is educate the customer.

Nitza: Right. We need to educate ourselves and educate the customer; you actually introduced here some kind of new formula.

The formula is simple. If the customer wants to be sure that I am doing things in his favor, then he needs to be included with me in my desire to please him. If you want to be sure that your glasses are going to be 100% good and that I keep my word like I do to my son, to my little child, then this is how I need to explain to you what “my treatment towards you” means. What does it mean that we’re suddenly “caring for you and not for our pockets”? It means that our pleasure lies in us enjoying your pleasure with the glasses. This is the pleasure that the organization receives from what it is doing, this is our profit. Today, we no longer measure our profit in dollars, but instead let’s say we measure it in calories of happiness. The more heart warming it is for me to feel you’re satisfied, this for me is “the place of gain.”

It turns out that my organization has a goal to sustain itself, to exist and to provide for all of its employees a rational level of existence and no more. All the rest is us taking pleasure in delighting people and they in return bring us that pleasure, the feeling of warmth and happiness. This is both our wealth and happiness.

Oren: By the way, how will they bring it to us?

Their response. We are educating them to be together with us in the same integral system.

Oren: Do we need to invent processes in order to receive that feedback?

Processes for sure, we are explaining it to them.

Oren: I’m assuming that you explain to him your rationale at the time of purchase or even prior to that.

First of all, I market myself. How do I work? According to which new laws? I invite him to watch a video on how our organization operates, that we’re all working in the form of integral education and that we make no profit other than the profit of him deriving pleasure. We don’t make money like those big corporations that own enormous amounts of money and put it in their own bank. We show them that, that our gain is solely from the delight we provide to people. And people in turn are aware of that and are grateful for that. We live only to sustain our lives respectably.

This is what we promote, and simultaneously we also advertise the principles according to which we operate and how much we wish for our customer to understand us; in that he is already learning something from us, the new method. This is how he is changing, we educate him that way. He can see there’s an organization that instead of making a thousand dollars for a pair of glasses, charges five hundred instead. It’s enough for it to cover its own costs, pay all the employees, cover all the spending, insurance, everything it has, it’s enough for him, he doesn’t need more than that. Because he’s not living for this, he’s living in order to receive pleasure by providing this to you.

You see that something like this exists, that not everyone is trying to deceive you, as you say. Of course, this isn’t an altruistic organization that lives on donations and contributions it receives, but rather it exists in such a way that you and the organization are like partners in sales and purchases. If you are partners in the lack and the pleasure that you create, if you delight one another, then you are partners. It’s not that one is buying and one is selling; it doesn’t matter here who is buying and who is selling.

Meaning, the fact that we are together in such an interaction, this is called “Earn a living from one another.” I earn a living by your pleasure, and your gain is the pleasure you receive from me giving you pleasure. So we begin to see that the whole world is in such an interaction of industry, service, sales and international trade-in and so on, and all of that was created so we won’t enjoy me selling, but enjoy me being connected to others correctly and them being connected to me. This is how we rise to the next level, for we have a new lack and a new fulfillment.

Oren: Is this how you see the world running in the future?

Yes, I see that there’s no need for money.

Oren: OK, is it futuristic?

No, but money in a form that I don’t put in my pocket. I give you money, you give it to me, and for the time being this is how we exist, because it’s equal in value to everything we have in this world for now. But in fact we are come to the world and we’ll reach a point where each and every one acts only in order to provide a rational life for his body, and we see that his pleasure is already shifting from the material level to the spiritual level.

Oren: On the spiritual level, positive interactions exist between elements, between organizations, between people, between an organization and its clientele.

Yes. And then I see what each and every one needs and am able to provide something for him and derive pleasure from that.

Oren: We portrayed that as an image towards which the world is developing.

I’m not really talking about the spiritual world. I’m talking about reaching new consumerism. This is what I need. It is my nature that is undergoing improvement now.

Oren: Let’s have an intermediate recap. It means that I as a customer would very much like to encounter such an organization whose motive is that making me happy is its vision.

Yes.

Oren: You as an organization format your way of thinking and set a goal: I want the products and services I develop, no matter what field you’re working in, to make people happy. Really, purely, not play pretend. This is the organization that will succeed and I as a customer promise to go to such an organization.

Yes.

Oren: I would like you to address this clearly. Let’s say someone adopts this approach and starts promoting his organization towards such a way of thought and behavior. You say that in a few years, no matter right now how many, the world will run this way and this will be the norm. Meaning, that if today it’s innovative and advanced, it will be the norm in the future.

Because our desire will reach that point. The nature of evolution will push us towards that, whether we want it or not. People will stop buying carelessly; as we said, their desire will derive more pleasure from the relationships amongst people.

Oren: For sure. I’m telling you as a customer, if I find someone who will provide me something with such concern towards me, I won’t budge from him; I wish he sold everything you could possibly buy in the world, I’ll only buy from him. There’s no doubt about that. Let’s say that today a certain organization begins proceeding towards such an approach. Starts thinking gradually, as you said, such changes don’t happen overnight, slowly they need to be digested, to understand what it all is, to feel. You spoke a lot about feeling. Now I’m jumping to the future. In X amount of years you say this is going to be the standard. Why? Because customers will stand up to it; you won’t go to someone who’s caught in archaic ways of thinking and wants to drain you and defeat you in this battle between the seller and buyer.

Now I’m returning to nowadays. Nowadays, I’m an organization which would like to start heading in this direction. I want to precede this trend, I want to catch the wave just as it starts, enter and open new markets, new possibilities. The point here to focus on what truly pleases the customer is entirely clear to me. What does it mean “clear to me”? I need to develop that ability; I don’t possess it today, but let’s say that with your guidance we’ll expand upon it.

You’ve said various things which I currently don’t know how to interpret, and I don’t know how accepted they would be among the shareholders who control our organization and so on. Today, on the way to this place of true concern for our client to be happy, what should currently be the approach to the line of financial profit? Because if today I begin trying to implement this approach in my organization, as you described it earlier that we’re essentially ensuring that our organization will be managed correctly with all the required means, we will probably need to invest a lot in training our employees, our clients, you’ve opened many new areas here in which we’re not even active nowadays.

But the bottom line is, you said that your organization is alive, breathing, advancing, developing, growing and so on; eventually there needs to be some kind of flow of the price to the client, and all the development and support of your business should yield such a circulation that ultimately you’re not piling up millions in your bank account, which is the rationale currently motivating you, but rather you’ve switched phase.

In this transition period, at the point we are at today, what should be the approach regarding the organization’s economic profit as of today? We’re at point zero and we wish to develop according to this model as much as possible, especially if this how everyone is going to act in the future, what should be the first step, grade one in this process, in the line of financial profits which is very important for our shareholders? Because in order for the organization to exist there need to be resources which move it in a way so it won’t collapse in the stock market tomorrow, and then the organization and our big dreams shatter.

Summarizing the question. What rationale of approach to the line of profit do I need to introduce today, in order for it to both make sense and enable this fairness? I feel that the frequency you’re transmitting here, underneath the words, is something that’s shifting from a chase after yet another million, depending on the scopes of our organization operations, to put all of that aside for a moment, because indeed this is what later on leads us to negative interactions with you as a customer. I don’t think about you enjoying the glasses I made you, but rather I translate it into how much the new lens will cost me, and then it’s a minus in the final line. According to the integral method, as a first step today what should be the logical rationale that will be both accepted by my shareholders and allow me to advance towards this horizon you’re describing, as well?

I’m not an expert on shareholders. I don’t understand that and I don’t want to take them into account.

Oren: But I must take them into account, they’re essentially my supervisors.

If they are your supervisors, you’ll need to educate them.

Oren: How? What should I say?

If they are your supervisors in the organization, you won’t be able to advance if they demand you bring them profit every day. We are talking here about an organization which is changing its approach. What’s the benefit?

Oren: That is what I’m asking. Change is a process. From zero to one is not change.

That’s fine, but whatever happens, it doesn’t matter, even if this process takes you five years. Still, you’re aiming for having no profits.

Oren: Is this something that’s important for me to explain to my shareholders today?

No. But they will see that from one year to the next your profits are decreasing; you’re sustaining yourself, the company is strong, there are many customers who keep coming back, but the company has no profit.

Oren: So I’m afraid you won’t have any investors.

What do I need investors for?

Oren: A large organization these days is traded in the stock market, it has resources.

So maybe no stock markets and no investors.

Oren: Maybe tomorrow, that’s what I said; this is why I jumped forward. In X amount of years.

An investor who needs to receive certain percentages every month is someone whom I need to make profit for. So you mean the price I am giving the customer is already twice the amount it costs me?

Oren: This is exactly my question, what’s the standard of fairness towards which you can aim today, which could be accepted by a rational individual?

Let’s say that in my factory I cover all costs and everything. And other than that I also need to pay reasonable salaries.

Oren: Invest in new budgets, for some things here need to be discontinued.

That is obvious.

Oren: In short, you do everything by the book.

Yes. I close the factory. Also for the future when I will need to develop all sorts of things there. Other than what I earned, X dollars, I need another X dollars to distribute among the shareholders. So I want to gradually decrease that. My question is simple, are those shareholders the owners of the factory? Or do I need money from them, credit in order to expand the factory? Are they the owners and am I simply a factory worker?

Oren: That’s how it turns out. There are all sorts of models; suppose that it is such in a certain model.

So they are like factory workers, except they don’t come to work, it’s just that every one of them invested a few millions and is earning profits off it.

Oren: Exactly. They’re investing to invest.

In the first stage, I need to treat them as a deductible expense. It’s an expense, there’s nothing you can do about that. I can’t close the business.

Oren: Let’s recap. We spoke about how my customers and I need a single common desire, where you and I, the customer and the organization and deriving pleasure in one thing. To conclude, what is one thing that both the organization and the client can enjoy?

It’s as if we are opening a joint bank account, and enjoying what goes into it.

Oren: And what goes into it?

The joint pleasure. I provide you pleasure, you provide me pleasure; that is the common pleasure between us. Mom gives me food and I, with my hunger, take her food and we both delight, truly delight together. We enjoy the good relationships between us, while your glasses are only an excuse. And my factory is only an excuse. We are rising to the human component. This is the second floor compared to the previous one.

(End of Conversation)