Morning Lesson April 17, 2023
Transcription is made from simultaneous translation which leaves a possibility for differences in the audio
Part 1:
On the Verge of Lishma - Selected Excerpts from the Sources. #9
1. Rav’s Introduction: (00:26) This topic of Lishma, the entrance to Lishma is the most important thing. This is actually the primary and the last thing that we reach in our study and in our spiritual advancement until from it we reach the purpose of creation. This is why we should relate to it seriously, patiently, that's the most important here because we are actually entering the framework where the quality of the Creator rules, the nature of the Creator rules in an open manner. So, that if we want to enter this quality of Lishma, we need to try to discover and to apply the quality of bestowal in a revealed, clear manner. Each one and every group, and in general all of us, as much as possible together. Read, ask questions and bit by bit we will clarify this.
Reading Excerpt #9 (02:18) “Torah is called Lishma for her sake..” Twice.
2. S. (07:46) What does it mean that there is a judgment and there is a judge?
R. There is judgment and that there is a judge and that a person should say that he turns to the forces of nature, the internal ones and external ones and he accepts them that they exist in a system they are connected between them they respond to his actions whichever they are. According to the responses that he gets from nature, according to what he does, accordingly decides that there is judgment and that there is a judge.
3. S. (08:46) Is there a state where bestowal enters within reason and that if I bestow, I feel good and if I go to reception, I see bad?
R. That could also happen but what do you get out of it?
S. Isn't this what the text is about? A person reaches a state where he sees that he goes in the ways of bestowal that he grows every day and if he goes in reception he falls. There seems to be a match of want to in our world. If I commit a crime I am caught right away so I am not in bestowal. I fall right away in such a state because of my feelings?
R. No, no, we need to learn that it is not in such a direct manner the way you are describing it there is no police or open law for everyone, no.
S. What is 'there is judgment and there is a judge'?
R. Bit by bit the person discovers by his own forces because that is what they want us to reveal that there is judgment and that there is a judge but is not that it becomes revealed to him and he is in this network of laws. Take it slowly, we will talk more about it.
4. S. (10:30) It seems like the matters are quite opposite here that you are supposed to do certain actions in order to reveal the state that you are working in faith and bestow if you don't make actions then you are really working in reception and knowledge so where are the actions one should make in order to know that is on the path of truth?
R. The path of truth a person should try to perform actions that are favored by the Creator, that's it. Not that it seems to him this way or that way but rather that he imagines to himself how good it is in the eyes of the Creator.
S. What does it mean that he sees it within reason as good? How can one decide that now I am seeing things with an utter certainty within reasons without any reasons over the clarity of truth?
R. No, he wants to reach such.
S. Where's our work in determining there's None Else besides Him, going above reason all these disappear?
R. This is before that. if I do not determine that there is None Else besides Him, then how can I continue with all of it?
S. That's exactly the scrutiny so how can I know that I determine things within my reason in such a decisive manner and go, when can I go by faith and above my reason?
R. It depends on your state. We want to reach a state where whatever we will do whichever way we will go will be above the reason of the will to receive we will reach this above reason into the will to bestow. All of our work, our whole existence will be in the will to bestow, above the will to receive which is called above reason and now and w]right then our reason is exactly according to the will to receive.
S. Only once I make this action above reason and I work in this desire then I can determine that there is wholeness?
R. Well, yes of course before that how do you even know what the truth is?
5. S. (13:40) Our entire work in Lishma can only be in carrying out the Torah like he writes Torah Lishma?
R. In keeping relations of love and bestowal between us.
S. How do we see changes in that? How can it be more felt within us?
R. The clothes that we get the closer we get to each other in actuality through all kinds of exercises even then we realize and we feel that we are closer in a more correct manner to the upper nature because we try to determine everything according to the law of the bestowal.
S. This feeling is carrying out the Torah? Do we have a feeling that we are closer to the upper nature?
R. Yes, this is called keeping or observing the Torah.
6. S. (14:54) It says here that we have to learn in order to know with other certainty that faith and bestowal is the purpose and that if you study in this direction you'll discover that there is a judge and judgment but it sends like that it is within reason, whereas we exit outside of reason here?
R. It is a reason that is opposite to what we have now if now our reason is in reception and that's it then later on it will be in bestowal.
S. But it's also a system of laws that has reward and punishment?
R. Of course, even more strict than our system, it is a divine, a godly system. It is truly the upper system from which descend to us all of the forces and rules.
7. S. (16:18) It seems from the text that if a person reaches bestowal then he discovers that there is a judge and judgment. What is that state? Until he reaches this state he doesn't discover it
R. No, he doesn't discover it, the Creator is hidden.
S. What is that state? What does he discover?
R. He discovers the force of bestowal, that specifically the force of bestowal not the force of reception born. Now he discovers that the force of bestowa is the one that governs the whole of reality and it is called the Creator who is the judgement and the judge.
8. S. (17:16) He writes when we look at these two states we see that there is a judge and a judgment because when we don't follow the laws of the Torah, of truth we are punished instantly. My question is what are those laws of the Torah and how do we feel that we are punished instantly?
R. We are punished instantly that we cannot get closer to the friends and through them to the Creator.
S. How do I feel it as punishment?
R. If you are on the path and you did something that is not congruent with the advancement on the path then you feel that.
S. What does it mean? What is the punishment that I receive?
R. Punishment is not that you advanced towards mutual bestowal with the friends and the Creator.
S. This can only be my inner feeling that no one sees it?
R. No, no one can come and tell you that.
S. Is it my inner feeling that is punishment?
R. Yes, yes. Just like in our world you discover something, that this is a reward, that this is a punishment, you get the higher pay or the lower pay.
S. What are the laws of Torah by which we should go?
R. The laws of the Torah are laws that all connect together into the system of Adam HaRishon.
S. How should one know these laws?
R. You have the rules: Love your friend as yourself. Don't do to the friend what is hated by you, and so on.
9. S. (19:30) When a person moves away from the friends and the Creator, who pushed him away, the Creator or himself?
R. Of course the Creator there is None Else besides Him. We need to respond to it in a way that we understand it, that whatever is operating on us, it is only the Creator and what we have to do is only to get closer to Him.
10. S. (20:15) It sounds like my ability to understand what are the laws of the Torah and meet them is only when I feel the reward and punishment but before that I don't know, I don't feel the changes in my actions?
R. Truly this is happening in the beginning of the way to Lishma that we don't net know and we keep that we are in some sort of confusion and we try this way and that way to behave but later on we begin more and more to understand two sort our actions, so that those that do not pertain to our pleasures and suffering but rather they pertain to bestowal and giving. We want to exist more in those.
S. It sounds like it has a lot of depth but there is not emotion to capture what you said. What is the difference between taking pleasures and suffering into account and actions of bestowal and not others? There is not so much feeling meaning I am supposed to be able to discern between these two things so that I can make actions of bestowal and not others but it's like there is no indication?
R. Yes, you realize that if you think about bestowal we can't connect our emotions to it. pleasures or the opposite. If we see actions of reception we cannot connect to them rejection. It is seemingly easier but nevertheless, so how do we do it? We need to do exercises, workshops and all kinds of such depictions between us, to talk about it, about how much wherever I see connection, I see rejection, where I see distancing, my own state, I actually see the opposite. I see myself as established correctly. We need to talk about it. We need to activate these states, these emotions from inside of us and from within us. Please, I am ready to talk about it whenever you want.
S. The state when there is no judgment and no judge and you can't work it is a state of great suffering because there's no vessel to develop, there's no vessel to move forward it's like a stage that we have to survive in our work because there's no hope you don't feel how you can come out to any feeling by which you can start climbing. How is a person supposed to pass this stage until it comes to the indication from the other side?
R. First of all, with his eyes shut. That he doesn't want to look at anything besides keeping let's say the commandment, the Mitzvah when he's about this Mitzvah that he has no emotion towards it no desire, no drive, he is not drawn to it so let's say, how to perform an action which I am not drawn at all from the side of the will to receive, it is impossible. Here we already talked about it many times that we have to operate together, that each one shall help his friend as much as possible but now it's already a different stage. This is the difference between Lo Lishma and Lishma and the difference is that I truly keep the Creator’s will in Lishma. That's it. We will get closer to it. I also don't quite have the words that will be clear.
11. S. (25:40) He write here that Torah, Lishma ultimately leads you to perceive things within reason
R. Yes, of course.
S. If the attainment is within reason what is the Lishma here?
R. I didn't understand.
S. If the result of Torah Lishma is within reason, then what is the Lishma here?
R. Whatever you do for her sake you attain it for your vessels..
S. Isn't the attainment above reason?
R. This is what it is called above reason in order to emphasize that it is not according to the style with which you felt before. You are now shifting into qualities of bestowal where the Creator helps you to learn what does it mean to be like him in the framework in the network of forces and laws that is like Him. This is called that you are entering Lishma.
S. This entrance, ultimately, if it is in reason. Isn't it an aspect of reception to receive if it is in reason?
R. No, because it is above your previous reason. oF course you are going forward and attaining and revealing and understanding within your new reason.
S. What exactly becomes your reason?
R. Bestowal, that you now are entering laws that are all built on bestowal to others.
S. If basically the laws of bestowal becomes your reason isn't then bestowal referred to as reception if it is already in reason doesn't it invert to reception?
R. Why?
S. Because it's in reason and no longer above reason?
R. In relation to what you had before your previous reason but according to your present state it is according to your regular reason.
S. In order for bestowal to happen there has to be a vessel of above reason?
R. Now, yes but earlier it wouldn't be bestowal it wouldn't be above reason. Well this has to get into us a bit more and we need to scrutinize it more, bit more bit by bit it enters and it settles and later it becomes clear. The Creator doesn't leave anyone outside of the above reason no one, everyone has to reach it so don't worry. It will happen with each and everyone, with all of us together.
12. S. (29:46) I think the question we are trying to clarify together is, where is the choice left when it appears that it is a system, a clear system of laws and so forth?
R. No, no, no. Don't expect it to be so clear a system of laws then it will all be organized according to your present mind. Rather wherever you will want to work with the forces of bestowal, love, support for others; there you will discover the new laws.
S. But when he says here, that is now revealed within reason, is that the degree that we are in and towards the next stage it is always going above reason?
R. I didn't understand the next degree should be above reason already so what are you asking?
S. That's the answer so even though the present degree is within reason the next degree is always above reason and then there is always choice left?
R. So, and, so what's the question?
S. That's clear.
13. S. (31:33) I heard you say that we cannot attach a feeling to the actions of bestowal and also to the action of rejection and you also said that you understand that there is no emotional action in bestowal, so if we make an action of bestowal and I feel that it means that it is coming from benefit so what do we aspire to? What is the action of bestowal for Kabbalists? How does he measure that it is truly an action of bestowal and how can we get closer to it, through exercises or something?
R. Whatever is for the benefit of the other, always through the other we reach the Creator. It never works for us to perform a direct action to the Creator; it is always through the others.
S. The feeling, what do we do with the feeling so that it creates a negative or positive feeling, a reaction how to relate to that? if I feel that I am making an action whatever I can let's say to make an action of bestowal, so if I don't feel anything, it's not recorded anywhere for me if I don't feel something and if I feel something it is probably my reward I am enjoying that I'm giving or that I'm rejected. I am resisting what I'm giving. How to make it right. You said that attaching a feeling to the action of bestowal is a problem? How do you make an action of bestowal without actually wanting to feel the result and enjoy it like you enjoy reception right now?
R. This depends on how big you see the receiver of that bestowal from you as much as you value the recipient then you are willing to work for Him, seemingly for Him.
S. Seemingly? Why seemingly?
R. Because you are doing it for yourself. If it is related to the magnitude of the recipient, then it already depends on your vessels of reception because in your vessels of reception value or assess the recipient greater or smaller etc., unless if you don't measure Him but rather He is above your whole depiction then it is truly above reason. We will talk more about it. It's not for now. But it all follows the same line. The most important for us is to get into all of these things so that we will live and scrutinize them so that we are already in that.
14. S. (35:15) So you explained that we are not talking about the same reason that we are familiar with right now about a more advanced reason. So my question is: what ultimately qualifies the revelation within that new reason? Is it our intention, that we don't intend to benefit ourselves, that we are willing or wanting to go by way of faith and then it is revealed within a more qualified reason than the present one, so we didn't stipulate conditions to the Creator that we want it to appear in our initial, raw, will to receive, right?
R. We are in a system, in that system we are somehow connected to each other. If we want to be more connected in mutual bestowal, until I begin to feel, as a result of the light that comes and shines on us that I want the benefit of everyone, I want everyone to rise and connect and within this feeling I start to get the feeling of the Upper One, that He is the one who takes care of us in this way and He is bringing us to adhesion. That's it.
15. S. (37:13) The state of above reason is that the state of being in the middle when there is a reason below and a reason above? Above there’s a judge and below there is judgment. Can we say that?
R. You can say that.
16. S. (37:39) It says here that this needs to be our intention during the study, meaning to discover that there is a judge and a judgment and if I go above reason, then I will advance and if not, I won't. This we have to discover during the study or what does it mean to discover it when one learns?
R. What? Ask again?
R. Yes, we want to discover how we can walk within reason or above reason or below reason in each and every state in our life, not only during the study but even more so during the study.
S. What does it mean that we discover it?
R. At each time I have to value the Creator more and more otherwise I'm not going above my reason.
S. [No Translation]
R. There are a few rules to this: we will learn it, we will learn it but first of all this is how it is.
17. S. (39:35) Later he talks about a just judgment. What is that?
R. A just judgment means that it is equal relative to everyone, it means that it is equal relative to everyone; it is just judgment.
S. What does it mean?
R. Well, it’s equal for everyone, in a relative manner, as much as each and everyone is equal to the others; this is called just judgment but nevertheless, there is judgment. We feel it is being weighed, measured and later on there is a decision.
18. S. (40:55) If the person, as it says, already accepted upon himself the spiritual laws, it turns out that he takes upon himself the judgment and the punishment and the reward and as a righteous he justifies it but still he can ask for Hassidim from the judge in order to correct something, to turn the punishment to a reward?
R. Yes, you are right.
S. And following that, it turns out that if we delve into the reward and punishment and that there is a judge in relation to spiritual judgment, if there's an opportunity to love a friend then it is a reward. And so in the same way we can ask for Hassidim from the Creator even though we don't deserve it yet. So, that He gives us the strength, the forces.
R. In short it will all work out correctly, you are thinking in the right direction.
19. S. (42:36) My question is comprised of two things. The first thing in our world,we perceive the world in two, seemingly different systems of mind and heart and there's a contradiction between them many times. Scientists that research consciousness say that it's the most, the biggest mystery. They sometimes think these systems have no interaction like they are working in parallel. It's not clear how and so on and so forth. Can we say that in transitioning to spirituality, the two systems begin to be like a single system working in the same direction and that's why we seemingly understand it within reason?
R. If we elevate all of the influences over us to a degree of influence for bestowal above us, from us to the force of bestowal to the Creator, by this we settle and reconcile all of the calculations between bad and good, between the receiver and the bestower, between the Creator and the created being, then we are able to perform the right calculation and see justice.
S. Can we say that these two systems become one?
R. Yes.
S. In our world there are those who are natural, altruistic, that seemingly work for the benefit of others, but it is for the benefit of their reception in their vessels of reception. So in the transition to spirituality when we acquire vessels of bestowal and only there we discover the truth, can we say that this is because we are aimed at giving to the complete system to the Creator and we receive the bestowal from there and not through the vessels of reception?
R. The vessel cannot just have one feeling, it can't be made of just one feeling and you see this in each and everything. Even if you see that people go out to demonstrate, they only have one thing in their head, they can't understand the other and this is how it is one part opposite another part. And what's in that nothing? You can see that no benefit will ever come out of that to humanity but rather the vessel must comprise of two different forms: reception as well as bestowal. So that in these two different forms the person is in control, he is the third one seemingly between the two of them, between the evil inclination and the good inclination; then we will know the truth.
S. This is achieved through the Masach [screen]?
R. Yes, well it's not only the screen, it's the restriction, screen and reflected light and what is received in the reflected light and balances between the vessels of reception and the vessels of bestowal; this is our results, our outcome.
20. S. (46:30) To feel there is a judgment and there's a judge is a gift we receive as a response to the faith that we increase within us. Meaning the more we raise MAN the more we feel there are judgments and a judge?
R. Yes, certainly it's according to the kind and intensity of our connection with the Creator, yes.
21. S. (47:10) A person who looks for the path of truth, how is the matter of working with reward and punishment different from judge and judgment?
R. As much as he accepts that there is judgment and there is a judge or the other way around, that there is a judge and therefore, there is judgment. According to that, he already aims himself towards reward and punishment. What for him will be the reward and what for him will be the punishment.
S. Can you also integrate the topic of starting to work in the group and it moves into judge and judgments as opposed to reward and punishment?
R. I don't know. Then we need to see what does it mean work in the group and what is it he is doing.
22. S. (48:12) The Creator wants us to live in the faith that He exists without Him being felt in our corporeal senses. So how do we think about how He advances us and I understand if we want to advance, we have to be in bestowal, like Him, so it turns out that the desire to feel Him pushes us to ask to bestow like Him. Can we say that Him being hidden from us, is His way of advancing us towards bestowal through our will to receive?
R. Yes.
23. S. (49:00) In the connection between us, if I want to be in the quality of bestowal like the Creator, I need to see what the friend needs and not what he wants?
R. Yes, you need to feel the friend.
S. Meaning I always have to go according to truth and false and not bitter and sweet?
R. Yes.
24. S. (49:33) Are either of these, my reason or the judge and judgment, a faculty of the human mind as we can see or should we understand this in some other way?
R. I don't understand.
S. He's asking whether these terms, judge and judgment that we discuss now, they are part of human perception or the human mind or they exist within the mind or they exist in some degree beyond that?
R. Beyond that it's already according to how I, in the study of the wisdom of Kabbalah, I begin to depict it and it's not what is accepted or customary in humanity. This is how I understand the question.
25. S. (51:05) It's just that the language that Baal HaSulam uses here, so deep and straightforward, he writes that Torah Lishma is called primarily that when one learns to know in utter certainty, within reason, without any doubts of the clarity of truth, that there is a judge and there is judgment. How do we really reach a state where our entire goal is to reach that complete feeling because I feel like there are two ends of both attraction and rejection towards it?
R. What can I tell you? Simply feel the Creator in our vessels according to how much they are corrected in order to bestow and in order not to corrupt his reception in our vessels. That is the goal, this is called to discover that there is a judgment and judge.
S. So what are these vessels we have?
R. The will to receive. We don’t have any other vessels, from here until the end of correction, there's only the will to receive and we try to arrange the will to receive so that it will be as a will to bestow and accordingly, we will feel in it the phenomena that are called the Creator or the force of bestowal.
26. S. (53:03) Can we say that when we speak the Klipot called the attainment?
R. The shells called the attainment, yes and to the extent that we are able to rise above the shells, then we can receive the attainment in vessels of bestowal.
S. Why is that?
R. How could it be different? The shells hold everything. After the shattering that occurred before us, before we began to feel that we exist and we are in this world, the shells were formed and they hold within them the whole of creation, the entire process, the whole outcome of the vessel of Adam HaRishon and it's breaking and so on.
S. I understand but why do the shells hold when we [...]
R. Until we take from the shell forcefully everything that holds, we won't receive it and it won’t give to us. And the shell is a very special force that is under the control of the Creator, and the Creator is holding it specifically in order to free it, release it, only according to the measure that we can use the shell correctly.
S. A state of reason between above reason and reason can we say that there's a spiritual reason in which there are impressions collected from previous degrees?
R. I don't know what to answer you.
S. You don't understand?
R. I don't quite understand what the question is.
S. A state of reason which is between above reason and reason?
R. No, no it's a transition, it's a zero where I don't use my reason. But rather, I want to be above reason, I don't know why are you asking.
S. Because let's say, a person is descended from his degree and what he attained in the degree is not above reason anymore, so they descend in reason but that reason is not our corporeal logic?
R. Yes, so now he thinks like everyone.
S. So, can we say that in order to raise one degree above, a person has to turn back minus two degrees of coarseness?
R. No, it is true what you are saying, that next time if we rise, we rise to a higher degree and in order to rise to it we truly before that we have to fall and we have to fall to a state that is worse than we had before, to greater coarseness. Is this what you wanted to ask?
S. I forgot my point.
R. I was in a state of +1, now I fall to a state of -2, and then I can climb to the degree of +2, and this is how it works.
27. S. (58:20) How do we rise from degree to degree, how do we use the ascent of rising above reason in ascending from degree to a degree?
R. You cannot without above reason rise from degree to degree.
S. So how do we work with the above reason?
R. You don't have the force of bestowal, a higher degree is higher in bestowal and you don't have the force of bestowal, so how will you get it in order to rise to the degree?
S. How?
R. You have to work above your reason, above your mind.
S. So if I work above my reason what happens to me?
R. By that you establish the conditions to rise to a higher degree.
S. Why do these conditions elevate me to a higher degree?
R. Because you want to be in them. This means that you want to receive a force of bestowal above then what you currently have. How do you receive it? By working in whatever you can in order to activate yourself, according to that force, you ask for it.
S. We want to rise above reason, therefore, it's actually raising MAN?
R. Yes.
S. And then I seemingly receive some reason of the Upper One and I work with that?
R. Yes.
S. And this changes me?
R. Yes.
S. And then what was above reason becomes my reason?
R. Yes.
S. And so on and so forth?
R. Yes, that's the manner of ascent, yes.
28. S. (01:00:50) I connect to what the scrutiny is. Is this work in above reason, we have the example of Baal HaSulam, where he says that the child looks at the father and the father is using a hammer, he takes a wooden hammer and he performs his action but without any understanding and any emotion and this is how he acquires the operating mind. So is this action of imitating the one that I see as higher, the friends, this is the work in above reason? By this I acquire the operating mind, by imitation?
R. It helps but essentially it's only your actions that should awaken the Upper Force to influence you through the light that reforms, so that you rise.
S. And this example that I have before me, the example that I try to mimic, how do I feel the quota, by mimicking it? Do I simply do it until some miracle happens and that's it, I just stay with this example that I had before me, meaning I have to love the friend who's opposite of me and takes care of him and he will be more important than me. Until that happens, I don't leave this friend and don't move away from him?
R. Try.
29. S. (01:02:35) How will we be able to rise to the degree of plus two, without first falling to minus two?
R. I don't see that group here.
S. It's a question from the internet.
R. It's truly impossible, yes.
30. S. (01:03:20) You explained to the friend before that if I'm in on a certain degree then I want to rise above this reason it sounded as though there is no descent in the middle we rise higher and rise higher and rise higher?
R. If you in the current state discover that you want to rise higher, then in your desire you discover that you are in a lower state, we'll learn these things many times.
Reading excerpt number 10 (01:04:10) “By the lower one feeling..” Twice
31. S. (01:07:57) It was written he wants to annul his own existence. What is that?
R. How he exists and feels himself as a will to receive, that it has a certain attitude to the environment and to the Creator. He wants to completely nullify himself from that because it all comes from his will to receive.
32. S. (01:08:35) When we want to give contentment to the Creator and do what He wants, we discover He wants my benefit. So it turns out that I seemingly am forced nevertheless, to think about myself but it's already because the Creator wants that. How according to this excerpt, how is it possible to work with it in a way that truly bestowal will stay pure for the Creator and without some benefit?
R. This can come only intermittently, it cannot be right away but where everything is clean and beautiful and only going up, you cannot go up without first going down.
S. So each time that we discover the Creator's desire to benefit me He nevertheless drops me down and I have to rise from it?
R. Yes, but already to a different degree you're being dropped lower and deeper, then you rise higher, to a higher degree.
33. S. (01:09:50) According to the excerpt, it turns out the Upper One wants the lower one to exist, and the lower one wants to revoke his own existence. So how does the lower one organize himself and correct it?
R. The lower one doesn't want to sort out his reality but his will to receive that appears in him but he cannot even imagine to himself what it means to nullify himself so that he doesn't exist, that's not, doesn't exist in reality.
34. S. (01:10:48) He writes that the lower one wants to annul and cancel his existence but the Upper One tells him, you need to exist and here is your existence. So what kind of existence is it, how does he accept it?
R. Where is the text that you're asking about?
Reading: “at that time he begins to understand, by the lower one feeling His exaltedness, he begins to understand that it's worthwhile to him to annul before Him and cancel his own existence. Then he feels that the fact that he exists is only because such is His will; that the Creator wants the lower one to exist. But as for himself, he wants to annul his existence. It follows that then all the vitality that he feels is regarded as Lishma and not for himself.”
R. Yes.
S. So the question is: what kind of existence that he doesn't want it to be but he receives it only because the Upper One wants it, what is this existence?
R. That he wants to be in complete bestowal to the Upper One, that he wants to exist only to the extent and on the condition that he bestows to the Upper One.
S. So we can say that the existence of the lower one is in order to receive in the existence of the Upper One gives him in order to bestow and these are two different kinds of existence?
R. The existence of the lower one is in order to receive. That's how it is born, that's how he develops but then he receives from the Upper One a correction and therefore, his entire coarseness that he acquires will then be corrected with restriction, screen and reflected light.
35. S. (01:13:03) The state that he describes here is this what we call love sick?
R. I don't know, I don't want to define that.
S. Okay, is this a condition for advancement? We have to reach such a state where your whole life, you get it from your desire to resemble the Upper One and you yourself have nothing, you don't want anything: is this the condition for advancement?
R. Yes, that's the condition for progress.
36. S. (01:13:45) In that state, what does the lower one give the Upper One exactly?
R. The lower one gives the Upper One the opportunity to bestow corrections upon him.
37. S. (01:14:07) It says the following: that by the lower one feeling His exaltedness, he begins to understand that it is worthwhile to annul before Him and then revoke his own existence. It sounds like some kind of work in the ten: I have to annul and cancel myself before the friends but I can't do it if I don't discover His exaltedness, otherwise I cannot do it?
R. Right.
S. So the question is: one depends on the other in order for me to feel His exaltedness I have to annul but I cannot annul if I do not feel His exaltedness. It's like a loop that I cannot get out of?
R. All right, how can you help the friend?
S. By the lower one feeling His exaltedness he begins to understand that it is worthwhile to annul before Him and cancel his own existence. So I have to annul before my friends in the ten and my ego doesn't let me do it. But in the excerpt it says that if I feel His exaltedness then I begin to understand that it's worthwhile for me to annul?
R. Right.
S. So how do I manage to annul before the friends in order to feel His exaltedness, I need to annul?
R. Yes.
S. But seemingly I feel it's like a loop here but I simply cannot do it. On one hand, I have to annul and feel the Creator and then if I will feel the Creator I will be able to annul?
R. So does that work together?
S. Yes.
R. Try to activate yourself towards it and you'll see how it works.
38. S. (01:16:40) If I annul towards the Creator directly that's the biggest possible ego, that's why I have my friends so that I can gradually learn what it means to annul myself, to gradually learn. Here you also mentioned that this world is everything here, as Baal HaSulam writes in one of his articles, the dominance of man, of humans, what are we dominating?
R. I cannot hear you.
S. What is this human leadership or dominance? We are constantly under the control of the will to receive?
R. We are constantly under the control of the will to receive but along with that we give the Creator an opportunity to bestow upon us, to influence us and to change us, and from day to day, we agree more and more, to release a bit more and a bit more of our will to receive to Him that he will bestow upon it and annul it and change it in order to bestow.
S. In other words, I control the desire, is that how it is, it's like interaction with the Creator?
R. You don't control your desire, you give the Creator the ability to control your desire.
S. That's the only choice? On the one hand annulment on the other hand one is already working with the Masach already?
R. It doesn't matter with the screen or without a screen. What are you asking?
S. How can I control the desire?
R. You can control the desire if you ask the Creator to control your desire.
S. I see. So I need the help of the Creator anyway.
39. S. (01:19:13) He says here that when he feels the sensation then comes the correction of MAN. What is the correction of MAN?
R. That he can already raise his request to the Creator and the Creator will answer.
40. S. (01:19:40) By what does a person feel the elevation of the Creator?
R. Through what? By annulling towards the Creator, to the extent that he annuls, so he annuls his ego, that it will not conceal the Creator from him, and in such a way he can recognize Him.
S. He writes here in the beginning of the excerpt, that first of all, the lower one feels a sense of exaltedness and then he begins to understand that it's worthwhile to annul before and cancel his own existence before etc. So what is the initial feeling of His exaltedness on which I begin a certain type of work with the Upper One?
R. That the Creator is above everything; exaltedness.
S. And what reality can I annul at that same moment? What reality do I annul when I feel this exaltedness?
R. By you feeling that exaltedness it cancels your reality.
S. And then what? I remain without anything, how do I then work?
R. You are left with attainment of the greatness of the Creator.
S. Which is the new reality I need to reach?
R. Yes.
S. Okay, now that I feel this new reality, that the Upper Force is upon me, how do I now with it calculate? How do I then, after he says that he feels that all of his vitality is in Lishma and not for himself, how do I make the scrutiny?
R. According to what you feel now, you perform a scrutiny, as much as the Creator is more important to you than yourself.
S. And then again, there's a matter here of how by determining that the Creator is the Upper everything where is my self-annulment here?
R. Because you determined that the Creator is more important to you than yourself.
S. I don't feel that I determined that he's more important, that there's something that controls me?
R. Okay, let it be like that, control under force, so what.
S. So how do I make the correct scrutiny from here, not continue with my own forces?
R. You don't have forces of yourself now you feel that you're under the control of the Upper One.
S. What is the calculation for Lishma, for the Creator's sake?
R. The calculation of Lishma for her sake for the Creator's sake is that everything you have you want to ascribe to the Creator.
S. That's the correction of the prayer and reception of the prayer, the MAN and the MAD and as soon as I determine the upper one that I work with Him I succeeded in doing it I have the help of the Creator to do it because I cannot do it all for myself?
R. Let's say, I'm not going to start arguing with you because your words MAD, MAN, this and that, you're throwing all kinds of definitions here that each one of them includes other definitions.
S. I'm trying to understand what Rabash writes here.
R. I understand that you're trying to understand but you can't understand it in such a way but gradually and slowly you have to start doing it
S. To do it means the emotion does it?
R. Doing it means that you're trying to perform this inside of you, these things, in the group.
41. S. (01:24:05) What does it mean to annul his ego so it will not conceal the Creator from him?
R. To try to make the Creator more important than what his ego was showing him.
42. S. (01:24:34) When does a person discover that he exists because of the Creator's will?
R. When does a person..
S. When does a person discover that he exists as the Creators will?
R. That's a good question. When he starts attaining for the first time the control of the Creator.
S. As a result of what kind of work? As a result of what does he discover this?
R. By wanting to reach a state that he, with the group, are close to the feeling of the Creator.
43. S. (01:25:45) If a person is in a state that he doesn't feel the Creator he doesn't feel everything we're reading about. What's his point of contact?
R. Point of contact in what?
S. In something, because the day will soon start another day, they'll be meetings, there will be lessons and they'll be some kind of routine but all these things, the Creatr, annulling the ego, above reason, Lishma, it's like it’s what. I guarantee that I will not be doing anything today so what should I do?
R. For what?
S. So the day won't just go by for no reason?
R. What's the purpose?
S. I remember something that's important to me above the daily reality but it's like a blurry memory. I don't even know how to grasp it?
R. You need to organize for yourself more or less a process that in each and every moment that you complete a degree you reach a higher degree of bestowal that is called that you ascend and that's it. Here you have to do exercises, here you're an athlete you know this, what exercises can I do that will help me be on a higher degree each and every time? That's what I have to get to, to such an implementation, that's what I have to get to.
S. What exercises can I do if it's already like it's just exercises, it’s just my daily schedule?
R. No. I erase this routine and then everything is clear, it's all clear, and then I want to fill the day with my search. Where can I during the day feel myself in connection with the Creator. I don't know what to say, I don’t know how to say it, but when all kinds of thoughts go through me, desires, I try every time to be in adhesion to the Creator in His direction, maybe ask again.
S. Let's say the example of a sport. So I have been doing a professional sport for years but I know when I go to the gym three times a week I feel better so I do this action and it's clear what the reward is, then in the afternoon lesson so let's say I do a workout before the lesson, it's clear, then the benefit and then I come to a lesson and I sit in the lesson as much as I am able to open camera or not open camera, thoughts, work, and from 12:00 to 1:00 goes by. For a very long time I don't feel that I did any work with the Creator there, I passed ok 12 to one went by, afternoon lesson went by. How will it be different today? I don't feel that I have any tools to change this?
R. That is with the friends, as much as society gives you a recognition of the greatness of the importance.
S. They give I see that they come even though they have their work day and they clear their schedule and they open their cameras and they're very serious. I have a ten that's very very purposeful. But I'm not able to adhere to this work and to feel that the day went by and you're coming closer to bestowal and doing the degree.
R. You're depicting yourself higher than the others that's why it's hard for you to incorporate from them, it's hard for you to accept desires and thoughts and goals from them, that's a problem.
44. S. (01:31:30) How can a ten help a friend in that state even if he won't do anything. He can say hi, how can the ten still help him?
R. You need to see amongst yourselves between you, how you have to behave with him. But he feels that by moving away from society that by that, he's falling. He's not coming closer to the Creator, the opposite, he is moving away from the Creator.
S. Yes, but there's a feeling like indifference?
R. No, what indifference? If we relate to friends in the group in an indifferent manner, so we will never come closer to the purpose of creation, so what are we alive for?
S. Right so how to awaken and ignite the friend so that he feels today on fire?
R. So we need to talk to other friends that are less blocked, and to decide with them how we can influence that friend that is under the burdening of the heart.
S. What can awaken a friend that is blocked or in that state?
R. It could be that it's something temporary and that we all think that will take less time than that for this it's not supposedly worth it to start and do all kinds of actions that, nothing critical. I don't know. I think that what we need, that with all the forces of society, of the group, we have to activate more and more friends that have an approach or contact with that specific friend, that they have some approach for that person and they can affect him and influence him.
45. S. (01:34:38) There's a very big opportunity a friend is saying that he doesn't feel spirituality and mutual responsibility and all the vessel and a lot of people are watching. Why aren't we doing anything? What is this indifference? What do we need to open a book and do prayers? It's a matter of thought as you said?
R. I don't understand.
S. What are we lacking then that the vessel will ask for a friend to reach the final correction, all the friends from the world vessel now seeing this?
R. Yes, here please ask.
S. Why so many questions why aren't we just asking? It's also a question, I don't know.
R. We can't activate ourself to such a plea. We cannot, in order for us to ask for such a thing to happen for someone, you really need to know his state and your state and the Creator's state. And to raise his deficiency to close it in your deficiency and take the Creator's deficiency and clothe it on your deficiency and then that MAN to raise that to the Creator.
S. It sounds simple I heard his deficiency and many other people heard it. What's the problem to raise it to the Creator?
R. You have to incorporate from that deficiency first of all, to incorporate and to take it as more precious than your own deficiency. And that has to be a very exalted degree, the degree of Bina.
46. S. (01:37:02) You gave us before advice throughout the day, I experience all kinds of thoughts and desires so I try to be adhered to the Creator. These are the words that I've heard. The question is, why did he choose to use those words and not words like adhesion to the friends?
R. Adhesion to the friends,.nobody canceled that. I don't know what you're asking.
S. It feels like the desire to be adhered to the Creator if I'm in all kinds of places during the day, so without doing it through thought of the friends, it feels like some kind of leap. It's lacking, something's lacking in it.
R. It could be.
47. S. (01:38:20) The text speaks about annulling yourself and speaks about you exist and you feel only that this is the Creator's will. Is it possible to come to a state where you don't have any need for reception anymore? For your will to receive? You're just converted to a will to bestow to the Creator?
R. Yes, that's possible and what next, what next? By this you're not adding anything to creation, you're just annulling yourself.
S. But now it's time to bestow through the friends finally?
R. What will you bestow?
S. Only good things like the Creator. He is the good that does only good. I will try to do that.
R. If you will try to do the good that does good towards the Creator, that will already be to receive in order to bestow.
S. That's true.
48. S. (01:40:05) We came out of Egypt and went through Passover, we felt in our bones the evil of the ego and we entered a state of the desert. What we're learning today, the quality of for her sake, we are scrutinizing this matter and if this is the beginning of the entrance to the desert? Or is it prior to that?
R. It's already after we were supposed to go through the desert, we are not taking the exact same path as it is written in the Torah. That is why it's not exactly the same path. We will scrutinize it later.
49. S. (01:41:31) We fell together with the female vessel to the degree of -2. And even though we don't agree with it, we asked the Creator to annul our desire. And they're grateful for it, what's the difference between the degree of -1 to -2?
R. The difference between the degrees is the intensity of the desire on each and every degree. Whether it's minus or plus, that depends on man's tendency, whether he ascends or descends.
50. S. (01:42:45) As a person who is in for her sake, is it a person who's between the Creator and the created beings and therefore he has a role?
R. Each and every one of us has a role, and we have to scrutinize it and implement it, each and everyone. Even a person that supposedly has nothing and doesn't know anything, he still is on a duty. Even the fact that he exists and makes some contact between those to those souls.
51. S. (01:43:49) We learned that annulment is an act of action of an example for connection and bestowal to the friends. What does it mean annulment towards the Creator and how can it be done in practice?
R. Annulling before the Creator is something very very difficult, let's do a calculation. I don't need to ask for myself, that's clear. I don't need to ask for the whole will to receive that is in all of created beings, that should also be clear. I have to fill everybody with my desire to bestow to them all the best. Needing to fill them, in such a way I want to see myself as if I'm joining the Creator and filling everything through him and organizing everything and connecting everything into one vessel.
S. If I take it a deficiency of the friend and include it and make it more important than my deficiency, what do I ask of the Creator? To do what?
R. I'm asking the Creator to fill the friend and whatever he needs according to his soul. And I'm willing to work in that and be in the Creator with it.
S. Am I supposed to know what the friend needs? Or if I ask, that's already enough?
R. That's enough.