http://files.kabbalahmedia.info/download/files/eng_t_rav_2012-06-28_program_haim-hadashim_n26.mp4

Dr. Michael Laitman

A New Life

Talk #26 -- Relationships: Building a Relationship Above the Partners’ Character

June 28, 2012 – After editing

Oren: Hello to all and thank you for joining us for this series of discussions, A New Life. Here with us is Rav Laitman. Hello Rav Laitman. Also Orit Dolev, couples therapist and also Nitzah Mazoz who moderates workshops. Thank you for being with us. We have gathered here today to talk about how we can help each of us build all the relationships in our lives better, whether it’s the one with our partners, whether it’s with the friends, or with the neighbors. With this series of discussions which we are going to go through, we are going to go through all the experiences of life.

Today we are focusing on connection in relationships and, hopefully, we will develop other topics as well. The focus is on the feeling of loneliness within the couple.

Okay Orit, give us an example from life, and if you can present it from your own experience.

Orit: Okay, so it’s really important to point out, that this is not a unique situation, but a very common thing that is going on in the general public, and so it’s important for us to bring it up and use it here.

The story this time talks about a couple in their 30’s and although they are a couple, one of them feels lonely. They are married, and children have come as the rest of the story develops.

So, what happened was as I reached the age of 30+ my family started to push me to get married. And I really felt from the point of view of a women, that I should become a wife. And I was simply pressured to get married by all the friends and all my acquaintances, with whom I spent time.

I found my partner. I got married and I didn’t think too much about it. I thought, “it has its pluses and minuses;” it’s more or less good and everything is good in the heavens and we’ll flow with it. The beginning period in our marriage went more or less okay. But slowly, I started seeing that we were both working, we come home after work and only then do we have a little bit of time together. We eat dinner, we talk a little bit and he goes to sit in front of the TV. He sits and watches a lot of TV, while I have to start doing my additional work, all the house chores, the work at home. During this period I experimented with different ways to fill this gap. Finally I saw that I had no one to talk to so I didn’t pressure myself too much.

During this situation the twins were born. The twins are 2 years old now and it is a lot of work to take care of them. I stopped working and I am with the children at home a lot of the time. I reached a situation where, on the one hand, I am fatigued from all the hard work and, on the other hand, I’m feeling very lonely. I don’t have anyone to talk to; no one understands me. As much as I try, nothing seems to work. When the babies cry at night, he does not wake up, he’s very tired; and my demands or requests to get him to help, do not work. He’s trying to earn a living and he’s just tired, there’s nothing I can do. I’m simply in a state that I feel so lonely within this relationship that I don’t know what to do any more.

From this story, the question arises, “How can you fill the emptiness of a person in such a relationship?”

Dr. Laitman: You have a family, children; thank G-d everything is good, other than the attitude of the husband. Let’s say that he’s really not capable to truly help at home; he doesn’t have the ability for it. But maybe spiritually, if he would make some kind of an effort, you would be satisfied. You are just expecting that and not more.

Orit: I would prefer more of an emotional support than actual help at home.

Dr. Laitman: All and all, from the moment that the children were born, did you feel that he got a little more distant from you? He’s afraid to touch them, to deal with them?

Orit: Not really; he plays with them. He doesn’t give them baths, but he will change diapers; hold one child as I’m giving a bath to the other.

Dr. Laitman: Meaning, he deals with them a little bit; he doesn’t just watch TV.

Orit: No, he doesn’t just watch TV. In the beginning, when we did not have children, he spent a lot more time on the computer and watching TV.

Dr. Laitman: And now, that the responsibility belongs to him too, even though for him it is not as strong, nonetheless he does as much as he is capable of doing.

Orit: He’s asking for me to be more cooperative, but...

Dr. Laitman: What about in other respects, does he sleep in a different bed? Do you feel that he has completely different ideas about what is a family?

Orit: No, no; he’s simply more distant…he doesn’t discuss things with me; he doesn’t try to have a conversation with me or discuss possible solutions to problems that come up.

Dr. Laitman: So you’re a mother now. You have your whole heart and mind in the children. You’re busy with them from morning to night. They are the center of your life. You don’t feel days and nights or what’s going on in the world because you are looking only at them.

I remember, when we used to fly great distances around the globe, from place to place, country to country with my wife and my son. My son was close to 2 years of age; maybe not so small as the twins you are talking about. But, I remember when I spoke with my wife about all the things that we experienced, I saw that she did not feel anything about the travel because she was constantly dealing with him. So there is no new experience of life for her and there is nothing that is going on around her, even though we are going from airport to airport and from place to place. No, her experience is simply just like the experience she had sitting at home next to him, or holding him in her arms.

The husband is not in such a state. You are demanding from him to share this experience, to the point of being you, inside your feelings, like you are. How is that possible? He is at work; he has a lot of challenges and thoughts there. Depending on what he is doing, it may be that he also has to be there in heart and mind; there may be all sorts of projects and so forth. Then he comes home, the kids are yelling this and that. Maybe he’ll change a diaper; but more than that, what can he do? This is not something he can control.

Orit: I’m not just talking about the physical help. The children go to sleep at some point and then I want to talk with him a little bit. I want to know what’s going on with him, share what’s going on with me, find out how he feels.

Dr. Laitman: Once again, “We’re not talking enough about our relationship,” this is a favorite topic for wives.

Orit: The relationship with us, it’s very important.

Dr. Laitman: A man suffers from this.

Orit: But I work very hard to take care of our children.

Dr. Laitman: So, what is he going to say? “I love you.” Enough. “Okay, now let’s talk about...”

Orit: For who is that enough? For me, it’s not enough.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, but you need to understand that this is all true. And I understand the nature of a woman. But it is still very difficult for a man to deal with these kinds of things -- discernments, discernments, discernments of the relationship -- when for him it is very simple. It’s like in nature, the male comes, he does what he has to do with the female and he goes and she stays with the children, with her offspring. She raises the cubs and continues with life and he, all in all, he goes. But that’s animals.

We’re more than animals; maybe in a bad way, not in a good way. This is the question. But we came from animals. Meaning that is our foundation. So, our foundation is such that a man is not connected to the children like his wife. He does not birth them. This process of birth that comes from you, this is something that he did not go through and he will never go through. He can not have such a connection with them; he can not feel them as an inseparable part of him. They are my children, yes, but it is not the same as what the mother feels.

Orit: But I need my man; I want him to be with me, and...

Dr. Laitman: Your connection, that is something else - meaning that the children will not be the center. If you want to have a connection with him, then you can not talk about the children all the time and about the diapers and the diseases and all that. So, a connection as if when the children go to sleep, there are no children, that’s it. And you are with each other.

Orit: True, true.

Dr. Laitman: So, you need to bring a cup of coffee and a piece of cake that he likes, and sit together with him, pleasantly, enjoying yourselves as if there are no children. To the point where it’s worth inviting a babysitter and going with him to a coffee shop or just go for a walk for a few blocks, and come back home like you are a couple. It is very important; without the children. To return to that picture in which you are alone together.

Orit: To return to that picture?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, because the children between you, disconnect the two of you; it is problems between you.

Orit: So are you saying, this means when he comes home, when we are done with the children and they are in bed by 8:30, there’s no TV?

Dr. Laitman: No, I don’t know.

Orit: But then the TV takes everything.

Dr. Laitman: But there was a TV there before.

Orit: The TV was for him, not for me.

Dr. Laitman: That’s okay. Well why now? Were you lonely before too?

Orit: I felt the loneliness before too, but before that I could deal with it better because it was something without other additional demands. Now with the work at home and the children, it amplifies the feeling of loneliness.

Oren: (don’t know what he said)

Dr. Laitman: I tried to do it like this. Look what I did. First, I have a vacation with my wife on which we go abroad together. A trip, on which we are constantly just going walking from place to place – coffee shop, somewhere else, then another place, and we are just walking all the time. This is our vacation. It is just the two of us, that’s it. We are not shopping or anything; just a journey together and whatever we need for food. That’s one thing. The second thing, every day, for a half an hour sometimes almost an hour, we go for a walk and then we talk. I constantly ask and listen as she talks.

Orit: He doesn’t ask me anything else. I feel like I’m not interesting him.

Dr. Laitman: But, I know what to do with my wife. I ask, “How’s the grandson, how’s the granddaughter?” I ask, what can I ask her? I ask her about the things she deals with and she tells about these things. But once again, in all the things that we talk about, we hold ourselves in such a way that we talk usually about positive things; only good. Good news. You understand this term, right? That’s it, good news. So that was the second thing. And the third thing is, sometimes when I come home we do an evening. We put a candle in the middle of the table, have some wine, some Greek salad...

Orit: Oh, those Greek people...

Dr. Laitman: Yes, I like Greek salads very much, just like it should be. And some little cakes. She knows what I like. That’s it. And then we make an evening. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not, because she is busy with all kinds of things, sometimes because of the children or the grandchildren.

We have to do such things. What do I want to emphasize here? That actually we need to determine special times. For example, you say, “Today, you are not watching TV.” He needs to know that one evening a week is yours, and he has to show up and that’s it. He has to agree, “Whatever you want, I’m doing.” That’s it. To dance? We will dance. To sit? We will sit. To talk? We will talk. He needs to know this. I do this. I know that we are going for a walk during this hour. I listen. I hear. And if she stops, then I already know that I have to say, “Why aren’t you talking to me?” You see? This is usually what a woman says to a man and now I say this to her. “Why aren’t you talking? Why aren’t you telling me? What’s going on?” You understand? I play an opposite game here and it works.

Orit: Can we make a copy of you?

Dr. Laitman: Other than that, I call her at least once or twice a day. “How are you doing?” “Oh everything’s good?” She is already used to it, so it does not take much time or anything. But this call must be. It is worthwhile to make it at a certain time that is convenient. So, simple things that the man does not initially feel motivated to do himself. You know, habit becomes second nature. So you do not feel obligated to always demand something from him and he feels that he is contributing, rather than you demanding something and he is in some confined place. It is very important for the nature of a man. It is something like me going for a walk. A quick, “Hey, how are the kids?” and then he goes off and it’s an escape. So, if the woman understands this, she understands the importance of such specific scheduled meetings. And with all the rest, there is nothing you can do -- when the children go to sleep, the mother has a lot of work.

Orit: So, I wanted to ask, how can I teach him to ask questions? You said, you ask your wife questions. How can I teach him to do that?

Dr. Laitman: This is a special time that we have, in which we go for a walk.

Orit: We can be totally quiet. If I do not talk, he will not ask. He will not be very interested.

Dr. Laitman: I’m not so interested either, but I know that I need to ask.

Orit: So, I need to teach him to ask? How do I teach him to be involved also in how I feel?

Dr. Laitman: To find something relevant to ask -- this is the wisdom of life. We reach this after we get to the grandchildren.

Orit: Only at that point? I’ll have to wait until then? They are two years old now!

Dr. Laitman: Well, you have to wait. We have to teach this. Here we are coming to a very serious problem. We are not educating our children to be parents and we do not educate them at all how to be humans, how to be couples. We do not have education for this. What we give to a child is only like a profession, like if you did not have science in the world then we would not teach them anything. They grew up, you know, like a lion, like a beast. But a lion has instincts and we are trying to live differently.

Orit: So now, for the responsibility of what you told me to do and I am willing to accept all these things. From this awareness, I want to teach him to ask me questions, to be interested, to ask “How do you feel? What’s going on with you?”

Dr. Laitman: Start by you preparing once a week, something like a little ceremony, with food or something like that.

Orit: The questions will come on their own, do you think?

Dr. Laitman: I think from that, yes.

Orit: And you recommend one evening a week, is this enough to correct our whole issue?

Dr. Laitman: I do not think it even needs to be one evening a week; it’s not the matter of hours here. It’s a matter of a correct attitude. It is enough to have a birthday once a year and make something like this when it is convenient. Anyhow, he comes from work, he is not going out to the pub with his friends, then coming home drunk at twelve o’clock at night. He’s okay. I do not feel, on his behalf, any transgressions here.

Orit: No, no, he is a good person. And he is helping as much as he can help; but as far as his attitude between us.

Dr. Laitman: I think you need to make an adjustment of the suitability between you, with a few discussions; and an adjustment to you, too. And then give certain, proper direction in the demands of him.

I understand that being at home, all day with the children, you do not feel any support from your partner. But, he says, “You know, I change diapers,” he is participating, so how else to show support? I am dressing in both of you and I see that there is a gap here. If we are to rise above our egoistic demands of each of us, then we need to truly understand that in the relationships between us, we need to come to a state in which there are no children -- we are a couple, and no children between us, who may be separating between us. And when they go to sleep, that’s it, now we are with each other and adhered to each other, all the time, such that the children are not between us and not giving us the ability to hug or touch each other. Rather on the contrary, the children are only pushing us more and more towards each other. It is some sort of an internal direction in the reception of this picture of the family in a different way.

The children are not, of course, the burden with all the concerns and the screaming and all that. First priority is us together; it’s very important that you do not put your children as the main thing -- demanding, “...don’t do this,” “take the child,” “no.” Rather, that he feels that you are with him, like before, all the time, and outside of that, there are children. There is a certain internal sophistication here to understand, ‘who is a man?’ and ‘what is a family?’ or ‘children are the main thing.’ And a woman needs to show her husband that it is not like that, that he is the important thing for her. Otherwise, he will distance. He will say, “What do you want? I bring you money and you know to take care of things. What else do you want from me?” Because you are showing him that this is what he exists for.

Orit: But initially, there was a certain relationship between us, but even then there was a certain distance. But now he is not talking about his emotions at all, he is not talking about my emotions. And he is just not interested.

Dr. Laitman: So, here is the point -- it could be that you are presenting the children as your main source of interest. And then he feels that he needs to move out of the way and in this he gets further. Your interest is not him, it is them and not him. I see on his behalf the normal, regular behavior of a male. He brings the earnings home, he does not go to the pub with his friends, he does what he can. He even changes the diapers for the kids. What else do you want from him? It could be that once again, you are presenting the children as if they come before him.

Orit: I am not talking about the kids. He comes home and we have our relationship with the children, then we put them to sleep and all that; and we find ourselves alone. And when we are alone, there is the TV for him and there is no discussion, there is no talking, there is no interest in who I am and who you are and where we are going. This is not something that is right for a child; there’s no talk at all.

Dr. Laitman: What attitude? What relationship? What do you want to talk about? Politics? Love? With whom are you talking? He does not want to talk about this. How much can you talk about relationships? Say once again, “I love you. I love you.” And again, say “I love you.” These demands -- I am exaggerating of course, I am saying it in this rough way on purpose, because your demands need to be balanced in the way that he will be able to understand you and what you want from him first of all; and on this, we can work.

Orit: And each time that a woman feels lonely in a relationship with her husband does that mean that she is exaggerating in her demands?

Dr. Laitman: I do not know. I do not know in what way you are approaching him. Let us say, you are sitting next to him after the children went to sleep; or you bring him a cup of coffee, some cake that he likes or something special that he feels like the attention from you is special. You sit next to him, maybe you hug him, maybe you touch him lightly. Even if he is watching something or he wants to watch some show that is on TV. So he is watching TV and you are sitting next to him; instead of in front of him, blocking the TV and demanding, “I want you to talk to me.”

Orit: No. I want to feel as a couple. We are a couple; I have a partner and I want to continue to feel being in this relationship. How will I know who he is and what he feels and what I feel about him if there is no interest in each other?

Dr. Laitman: You need to read many books on psychology. No, seriously, this is what I am recommending. Because then you will know how to talk to him and you will get to know yourself more and why these desires awaken in you. And it will fill you first of all with many answers that you think you will receive from him, but he is not like that at all. He is flat, he does not know what is being talked about here. He works, he brings home his paycheck, he takes care of the children and the wife; and thank G-d everything else is okay. What else do you want? You want love? Okay, let’s go. But, what else do you want from him? He is simple, he is not deep. You want now to start digging inside of him or to commit him to be more sensitive and more soft and rich inside, that he should know what desires, impulses, lusts are within him? What else do you want from him?

Orit: If he were like that before, would it be a different picture?

Dr. Laitman: It could be that if he was like that before it would be easier to talk to him; to invite him to a mutual discussion about something, yes? Or it could be that you are not able to ask in a way he understands. I’m telling you. What does he like to watch, football or some movies?

Orit: Yes, football.

Dr. Laitman: So football; you could move to a personal life from there too, if you are smart enough. The relationships in football are the relationships of the whole world. It is a game. Yes?

Oren: I have a question about that.

Dr. Laitman: In one minute.

Oren: I didn’t understand this about the football.

Nitzah: Only a man can identify this.

Oren: She, first of all, has this scene: the man and the TV - this screen with the football. And you said that she could take that and open it up, make something out of it; she should start getting interested in it.

Dr. Laitman: Ask him. In the worst case scenario, if his whole life is devoted to providing for her and his children, what is football to him? Give him something on his end. I mean, an hour out of 24 hours. What does he live for? She can not take that from him.

Oren: Okay, so what can she do?

Dr. Laitman: She wants to create a connection with him; it can only be through the common thing. For her the common thing is family, home, children. For him, that is not what is common. His participation is in terms of providing the money, changing the diapers, that is his participation in this field. Now there is another field. In your field, you get what you want from me; the children and the home. Now in his field, in football, she will have to enter there.

Orit: So, how will he enter my life? This is gray field. I am willing to go along with this, that for the family he supplies what he supplies and that’s good. On his terms, I am willing to learn what is soccer. What about my terms, alone? This is his terms alone. What about my field alone? He watches football and I want emotion.

Dr. Laitman: Emotion is not a field. What are you interested in that he can ask you about? What is the common thing that you have? I only see home and family and football. He can not, it is not in his soul to start talking to you about your fears and anxieties of yesterday, of today. “No, no, I’m good.” “Okay talk to me.” “How do you feel today? Are you more secure or more anxious?” “And what about the fears, phobias and anxieties that you had before?” What, you want him to talk to you in this way?

Orit: Maybe.

Dr. Laitman: What is he? A psychologist?

Orit: He is my partner. He is my other half; he completes me.

Dr. Laitman: No. I think that is an exaggeration. I think that you may need therapy. I am saying this seriously. In such a case, I do not think we should proceed; I think you need therapy.

Oren: She needs a pill?

Nitzah: Not a pill. A pill is a ball, in Hebrew. I think that it was a good idea about football. But what I understand from you is that behind this, what it actually means is that he wants her to identify with him. But she has no reason to identify with him. You want me to identify with you? First, be in my field, be with me and later we will talk. This is what I understood, actually.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, because the field needs to be common.

Nitzah: And he is participating.

Dr. Laitman: He earns the salary; he is not going anywhere, only home; and he is changing diapers. On his behalf, it is all that he can do. And he does not understand what she is demanding from him.

Nitzah: Actually what I thought while I was listening to this, were the nice things that we talked about in the previous programs - all the principles: the roundtable, the hidden or concealed intentions, the smile. How can these concepts enter this matter? And is it even possible, from this point that she is describing, to raise him up a little bit and introduce this? Someone has to invite someone to the dance. Who has to be the one to do it? The one who is suffering, the one who is feeling that he is lacking? Because the other one is not lacking anything, actually.

Dr. Laitman: Right. She must enter his field.

Nitzah: This means that in order to even invite him to this roundtable, she has to first enter his field, be in him, feel him and then invite him to the table.

Dr. Laitman: No, she cannot do it; she is very stubborn and very demanding.

Oren: This is a common woman of our generation.

Dr. Laitman: I am afraid of this generation. They could say that I am saying such negative things.

Nitzah: These are very common phenomena. Women do not know how to deal with the lack or the demands that they have in them and once they feel that the other side cannot supply this demand they separate. Either there is the demand, “supply for me, supply for me” or if not, then they separate. Here is where this method that connects everyone needs to come in; from this place.

Dr. Laitman: I think that the problem is in women more than in men and it is not because I am a man. I already went through all the states and stages. I think the problem is that a woman is not smart in our days. She does not receive the right education. She does not know how to deal with a man; she does not know who he is. All our education is cheap education. It is also sexual, menial and minimal. We are taught how to just be satisfied with that and whoever succeeds in that is more of a human, he is more successful. And to receive a little bit more; to give the children a few psychological tips and to explain to them that within a human is a constructed and complex mechanism, that we feel things from nature...but, people are just totally blocked.

If I did not come to my profession, I would never have developed; I would not have understood it all, neither men or women, because I was very scientifically-minded, very much deductive in the way I was relating to life. Dry and limited. And only by studying biocybernetics I started to feel more of the internality of a human, which I must have had. And therefore, our problem is that we are not growing in our education with the generation that is now growing up. The ego grows, becomes even more problematic, and we are not teaching about it.

Oren: You are saying that a woman is not smart today; she does not know.

Dr. Laitman: Once she did not have to do this. Once, she grew up with her mother and became a wife; today she does not even know how to cook. Once she used to grow up in her mother’s home, and in all the homes after a daughter reaches the age of 7, 8, 9, and the older she grew, she received from her mother all the details of the home. You need to take care of this and that, you need to know how to care for babies, if she is older than them, and then to wash the floors and prepare the food and the table. And do other things and maybe how to deal with the cows. And anything else at home. She was used to all the housework at home. What is it to take care of two kids? Every girl at the age of 8, 9, 10, had several like these kids at home whom she cared for, instead of the mother. You do not understand this?

Oren: I understand, but...

Dr. Laitman: We need to complete this. The woman today is not ready to be a mother; she does not know what it is. And the husband comes home. Why can’t he watch TV?

Oren: Well, he’s not talking to her.

Dr. Laitman: What talking? I don’t understand.

Oren: If there are such demands, they are there.

Dr. Laitman: Yes of course, from every woman today.

Oren: Today?

Dr. Laitman: We are living today. So give the right education in accordance with the demands. Teach them how to be a partner. If not...

Oren: No, no. But this is exactly the point. The point of our program is to teach them and give them tools, direction, advice, how to develop good partnerships. This is how this generation is.

Dr. Laitman: If both of them do not know what to do, it will not help. Small tips you can give in the book, but truly, here, for every single case there must be treatment. What can I tell you? If they do not have a common field, which she needs to create in this case, it could be in another case that the man has to, but otherwise, it will not work.

Oren: Someone has to move something. So he needs to go towards creating the common field.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. And from the man there has to be also, as I mentioned before, one evening a week. Let’s do an evening like we are alone without the children, with food that you like, with some flowers that I like, something like that. Not in a demanding way, but in a good relationship, in awakening a good feeling.

Oren: What is she demanding from him?

Dr. Laitman: “You are not talking to me.” What could she get from this approach? What could it be?

Oren: Ok. Tell me. Yes. I’m asking you.

Dr. Laitman: “How are you?” This is what she will get from him.

Oren: And will that satisfy her?

Dr. Laitman: We need to teach them how to reach something common. We must. Common food, a coffee shop, a little walk around the block, to sit next him. Instead of the TV, she should sit in front of him, but not to ask him questions.

Oren: She should not ask him questions?

Dr. Laitman: No. Not questions.

Oren: Because?

Dr. Laitman: Because this is not like the police, like an interrogation with questions. As few questions as possible. It should be done to the contrary. A question is like when you are sending him a demand. We do not need demands. We need to send him a smile that everything is okay. She can call his mother; reach out to him through his family. These things should be given as tips in a book or in someplace like that, so that a woman will know how to strengthen her family.

Oren: Let’s say she organized this evening with food and wine and all the things that he likes. So let’s say that now they are sitting at the table and it is evening and the kids are sleeping and they are sitting at a table like this filled with all the good things that they both like. Now you said, one principle, do not attack him with questions like an interrogation of the police. That’s what I got.

Dr. Laitman: Well, yes.

Oren: Okay. She made all the effort, she arranged the table and everything is nice. She invited him, he received an invitation in the email and comes to the table and they are sitting down. Now what? What are we recommending for them from here on?

Dr. Laitman: Let them eat.

Oren: Okay, that’s for sure, they will eat and they will drink their wine. Is it worthwhile to talk about anything?

Dr. Laitman: Pass the cup of coffee, sit next to him.

Oren: Okay, that is said. Do not ask questions like being interrogated.

Dr. Laitman: When a woman needs to sit next to the man, do I have to continue and tell you what needs to be done?

Oren: I understood. Maybe someone doesn’t understand here. I need to explain it. Maybe we need to draw here. We talked about this in one of our previous discussions where they sit to make a connection workshop of a couple of doves. Can we do it right here, now that the table is covered with wine?

Dr. Laitman: Everything that you heard before you can do. But this is under the condition that at least one person is making a step towards the other. According to what I see, they are in disconnect. He is doing everything and doesn’t feel there is anything more that he can contribute. She demands of him, not only connection, but in a way that negates the connection because she is demanding.

Oren: I think the picture she described is like many couples in Israel today.

Dr. Laitman: Okay, that’s fine, but it is not important. He, from his perspective, is doing everything that he can. She is coming with her demand, so she is distancing the connection. She is getting further from it.

Oren: She is suffering, the poor thing.

Dr. Laitman: That is not what is important. If you are demanding of me, I distance. If you come with something good and tasty, I get closer. So, she should be a little smarter; either through her parents, his parents, or through food, or through a walk or something, she can awaken some sort of caring for each other. She needs to create this environment. Right now, this is an uncomfortable situation.

Nitzah: I had a thought; I was just reminded by the gathering of friends, and I remembered that one of the first principles is to praise the friend. It could be that this is useful here.

Dr. Laitman: Of course.

Nitzah: So, it is like running instructions: first, we sit down, then you talk truly about how good he is already and how he provides financially, and it is important that he works hard. Can we implement this and just share and make it like a sharing, not questioning? It is like principles. I really feel they are principles that can be followed.

Dr. Laitman: If you are talking about a book and how I would write it, then I would write a page for him and a page for her.

Nitzah: Yes.

Dr. Laitman: But first of all for her. That’s one.

Oren: That’s for her? That’s what you are saying now? For her?

Dr. Laitman: Yes. In what way can she fill him? Food, sex, family, acquaintance, anything; let her check. Is she operating all of her abilities? And operate it. Especially through his family, through some good cake, you know the things he likes, the small things. That’s it. With softness, flexibility, not that she stands in front of him. Sit next to him, let him watch football, but meanwhile she hugs him; together they watch. Already this is something common. It does not matter that he is stuck to what is there and it is as if she is bothering him. She tries not to bother. This is wisdom that without, you cannot get along and one of the two needs to be smarter in it. I would recommend it to her, all in all. Afterwards, there are other things. It could be that we can invite some other couple, some friends over. Maybe we can get a babysitter and go with another couple, or just the two of them, to some movie or for a trip or something. Invite his parents; it really helps. That softens every case. If there are grandchildren, that’s even better, invite them. And then you can, between the words, fix all the conflicts. The home is especially the woman, not the man. What is he all in all? And for him, I would advise, what we talked about earlier. I already gave all these tips. That he has to dedicate a day to her, with the right attitude, every evening a few minutes, once a week, one evening. Once in awhile, a little walk, take her out of the home, especially, and so forth. Let’s say, I would recommend to her, if she is at home all the time, that in the evening when the children go to sleep, if he can not talk to her, and if it is really difficult, I would recommend to her that she takes her girlfriends and they go to some gym or something like that; or they go to the mall. Yes, you understand?

Orit: Doesn’t this increase the distance between them?

Dr. Laitman: No, it’s the opposite. “I understand you and I want to fill your desire.”

Orit: Why doesn’t it increase (the distance)?

Dr. Laitman: The opposite. On the contrary.

Orit: Because she leaves the home?

Dr. Laitman: No, no, no, she is not just going out of the home. She is doing him a favor, by going out. Instead of your bitter face, I feel myself as doing a great thing. It is really, you know, the bitterness of animals.

Orit: So, what you are saying is to fill this lack of loneliness, that the woman is talking about, actually we need to do certain opposite actions. Like the wheels, the wooden wheel turning into a rubber wheel. Instead of sturdiness, of hardness becoming something soft.

Dr. Laitman: And not if you come with demands to each other; love is an animal that grows from concessions. You know, “Why don’t you smile, why aren’t you doing this?” If you are constantly doing that, you are destroying everything. And from his side, it could be that with all of his heart, like I said before, when you are at the peak of love and everything is blossoming, he is sitting in front of the TV. It’s enough. What? Everything is okay for him. The fact that you are walking in his four walls is already okay. He accepts you that you are a part of him.

Orit: And the man won’t feel that he needs to make some kind of change?

Dr. Laitman: We will teach him that once in awhile he needs to dedicate an evening to you, a certain time here and there. For a man that is what is important. They know that today in the evening, I need to sit next to her and she will tell me, da, da, da and I will tell her, da, da, da. And this is how it will be.

Oren: How will he reach this?

Dr. Laitman: We write it down for him.

Oren: No man is going to read the book. The poor lonely woman is going to read it.

Dr. Laitman: So she will sit next to him in the evening with a cup of coffee and a cookie and she will hug him and she will say, “Look what the wise people are recommending. Look how many people are being recommended to do this. But there is also a little something here for you. “ That’s it.

Oren: I’m asking on purpose here. Why did I ask? We give suggestions here.

Dr. Laitman: As long as the two of them understand and they rise above their characteristics...

Oren: You are disconnecting from all the previous discussions.

Dr. Laitman: But I am depending on the fact that I already gave those directions. Each rises above his nature. Everyone understands that he is an egoist and he must rise a bit. So, we are pretending as if we did this. Maybe it is not so straightforward as: come home after work, bring home the salary, change a diaper, say hello, give her a kiss maybe, eat some food. Maybe the food was not that good, but he said it was tasty anyway.

Orit: These are trivial things that people need to do anyhow. Because we are living already such a life, in such a world.

Dr. Laitman: Does it really happen like this in life that it is trivial? That everything is good?

Orit: Not that everything is okay.

Dr. Laitman: That there is food all the time at home, a good attitude. This is trivial?

Orit: No. The trivial thing is the demand for connection with each other; the need for there to be some emotions, some feelings, between them.

Dr. Laitman: If we do not educate boys and girls about this as they are growing up, it will not happen. And we see this in life, what triviality there is. It is very difficult to connect, very difficult. Look how many times, people from their their best intentions and desires, get married and then get divorced, married and divorced. They are poor things. It is not that they are jumping from one to the other, they truly want to get married and they want to have it good, but they are incapable of reaching this state because they were not taught how to make the right connection.

Oren: So here is where we enter?

Dr. Laitman: Exactly where we enter.

Oren: I want to discern one more thing. I want to scrutinize one more thing. Later it will be the Torah of the family and then it will be the instruction for daily life, this is the name of the project. Okay, I have a question. You gave here a principle that whoever comes with a demand causes distancing.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. Because I am an egoist. If they come to me to get something from me, to take something away from me, then, of course, first thing, I close up. Yes, of course.

Oren: Okay, so this is a key principle for every person: Do not come with a demand. Because there is another person here, we do not come with demands.

Dr. Laitman: With mandating in general.

Oren: Okay, so let us say, I am that woman, and I want to come to my husband who is watching football and suggest to him that we try to do these things. How will he not interpret this as a demand?

Dr. Laitman: He will interpret anything as a demand.

Oren: How do you recommend to improve this? This is the problem.

Dr. Laitman: What she needs is to be wise enough. This is why I am saying that he will say, “I am watching something, move, move.” And if she brings him a piece of cake, then, “Okay, okay, put it down.” He is glued to the TV and now she comes to him with her questions?

Oren: No, no, she comes in with a new book, “Look, my husband, this new book, it says here that…”

Dr. Laitman: She sits next to him. She does not bother him while he watches football. No, it’s not over. Even the football is not over. She sits next to him like like a pillow and reads the book. He is already touched. Each one is filling himself and they are next to each other. There is already contact. The main thing is not to demand, not to distance. What is not clear?

Oren: It’s clear, but I just want to implement.

Dr. Laitman: So, in football something happens and all of a sudden he is disappointed, so she gives him a hug, like a baby, “Don’t worry.” Like a baby she hugs him. Maybe he is disappointed because his team lost, you know, something like that. She is searching for how to enter inside of him. Maybe you knit him a scarf from the colors of his team. We wasted a whole hour on this. Truly, we could talk about this all of our life.

Oren: What I am hearing you say, is to be more sophisticated.

Dr. Laitman: The demand should come in sophisticated terms so it will sound like a demand. Take all of the principles that we talked about so far, bring them here and see how we can help. If she sees from the book that she can not get along, there must be a place where she can go for advice.

Oren: Okay and things advance. Alright.

Dr. Laitman: We did not finish yet. Each time, you want to go down from the point at which a person has to actually make an effort. I see according to her effort, the way she is presenting these examples. In the beginning it was a good level. Now you are presenting examples that are, “I want him to talk to me and to take care of me.”

Oren: This is life.

Dr. Laitman: And I want to watch TV. I already saw her face a million times, that’s enough. And without sensing each other within themselves, it will not help. There will not be connection. So, we need to do something here. And she is saying, “No, it should be like this.”

Orit: Okay, so we talked about the fact that we need awareness but awareness can not just come from the woman for there to be change. It needs to come from both.

Dr. Laitman: It could be that it will not. The man, even though he takes the book, he will not understand anything. He will not read it all. What do you think?

Oren: But let’s just say...

Dr. Laitman: Yes this is for the virtuous ones. If you have a problem, you need to take care of it, to change, to get wiser and to come, in a positive way, to the solution. Either through the parents, or a smile, or all sorts of such things that are pleasurable to you and for both of you. You can make him his favorite something, let’s say. You need to do it in a way that is positive. Let us go out for a little walk. You fill him as a woman who feels her husband, whom she loves. Do it in a wise way, do it for him, do something that he loves in a way that will cause connection. Say, he loves some shirt. You go together, you stop for a cup of coffee together, you drink, you go for a little walk, and you buy the shirt. Not that, “I just bought you a shirt.” Meaning do everything in a wise way, to build connection. And this is intimacy. This is all that is needed really, there is nothing else to reach here. Do not give him the feeling that you are a pain in the neck here.

Orit: I do not think we presented the woman as a nuisance, or a pain in the neck here. It is just this specific situation.

Oren: This is the state. And it is a main cause of many divorces.

Nitzah: This is the situation. No one is willing to feel the other, he just wants to fill himself.

Oren: This is a phenomenon that happens almost in every single home. This is the normal routine.

Dr. Laitman: The truth is it happened with me too. I was busy with my work and really, my wife raised all the children and took care of everything. But really, I am not trying to justify myself.

Orit: What you said about the wisdom of women is very true.

Dr. Laitman: Home is a woman. Home is called the woman. That is key; that is Nukva. And therefore, from a man - a man is like a child - we talked about this already. And you can manipulate him in any direction. If a woman is smart, she can do it, she is capable. If not on her own, then with his mother. If not, then with the children. You can play with a man.

Nitzah: Yes, that is what we have to work on.

Oren: That’s it. Thank you to all of you. Thank you, Rav Laitman. Thank you, Orit Dolev, thank you, Nitzah. We had difficult work here today. I hope you will leave with strengthened forces and bring it to the public with a positive mood and a smile.

Dr. Laitman: With a good attitude and with pleasure, you will work everything out easily.

Oren: And thank you, viewers, for being here with us. Until next time, all the best.

(End of the conversation)

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