eng_t_rav_2013-07-25_program_haim-hadashim_n214

Dr. Michael Laitman

A New life

Talk # 214 – Relationships Between Brothers

July 25, 2013

Oren: Hello, thank you for being with us in our New Life educational series with Dr. Michael Laitman. Hello Dr Laitman. Hello, Nitzah Mazos. We are happy to be with you here to learn from Dr. Laitman how to take our lives into a new place. How we can take our relationships that are the heart of our life to a new place, to a better, more connected place where things between us, instead of being stuck, start to flow and we are able to complete one another and discover that suddenly everything just becomes good. Be with us. There will be much to take from here and in the New Life series; we are trying to focus on certain aspects of our lives. The insights that we receive, based on my personal experience, can be applied to other parts of your life.

We are now dealing with family matters inside the home and we want to see how to do things in different ways, since relationships inside the family today are very painful. I do not think that there is nothing more painful in life than relationships within the home, and we want to learn how to handle these well. Nitzah, get us into our discussion today, please.

Nitzah: Today we are going to focus on relations between brothers. Previously, you spoke on the framework of parenthood: about relationships between parents and between parents and children.

Today we want to focus the discussion on the system that involves relationships between brothers. There is no question that the brotherly connection is one of the most significant connections in a person's life. It is actually the longest relationship, since it starts before we get married. It ends usually after the parents have left this world, and this relationship can be a huge influence. When it is good, it can be supportive system, it can be friendship, fun, hanging out together. And it can be the opposite: it can be the source of frustration, pain, suffering, etc. So, today we want to learn from you, first of all, what does is the meaning of this relationship between brothers? What is the significance and why is it so significant? And why does it leave impressions on us even when we get older?

Dr. Laitman: First of all, maybe we start with the fact that when we get older and become parents, we begin to understand that this connection between brothers, and what it means to be brothers. It is a connection that is natural, since it comes from nature. You cannot sever it and you cannot do anything with it. You cannot get divorced from it. It is a relationship that obligates us from our parents’ side.

Our parents want us to be brothers, they made us like that. Therefore, if we ruin this relationship between us, it is as if we are harming our parents. Therefore, as we ourselves get older, we maintain these connections slightly more, because we do it for our parents’ sake and we feel unpleasant about it. We are talking about after we become parents ourselves and onward from there.

On the other hand, we see examples, really bad examples from the Torah, from the Bible. Esau and Jacob were brothers. What can be closer than two brothers? And look how opposite they are from one another. Jacob, because he was turned around, and did not actually come out at the right time, he stole. It is as if he stole being the first born. There is still something in it. In general, the signs of Jacob and how they are between them and especially toward Joseph and relationships like this.

The Torah brings it to us like a natural problem, on the one hand. And, on the other hand, we see that if there is a connection between the brothers, it has to go through the parents. We see that. When do Esau and Jacob meet? They come together when their father dies. In situations like that where there is connection between them, a natural connection, it obligates them and they bend themselves, they compromise, agree, and they come together. Therefore, we have to recognize that the connection between the brothers is work, great additional work that belongs to the parents. The parents need to deal with it, awaken them and explain to them in general what it is. Because suddenly in the family, there are two people and each of them wants to be king and they do not want the other one to exist, because it is natural. We see it with Esau and Jacob, that one apparently cancels the other. , we see examples, really bad examples

Therefore, here we have to see for the parents, and also for the brothers themselves, special work in connection between everyone. From childhood, from birth onward of the brothers, of twins, parents need to bring them to some special place. There is mommy, daddy and two brothers. And here the father has to intervene more. We have previously not spoken much about the father, since the father intervenes here and there after the breastfeeding period is over.

But here we need a little bit more input from the father, and we also need to differentiate between them in such a manner, that this is the big one and this is the little one. The little one was born since he was born fifteen minutes later, so there is a bigger one. The 15 minutes does not matter, he is first. We learn from the Torah that whoever opens the womb is the first born. So, there is the first born and there is the second one. And the first born has certain rights, which are bought through efforts, meaning, he is the first born. He has to look after his smaller brother. The parents treat him, give him more attention, more respect. But, he has to carry out some kind of special role.

In other words, they are not equal. A person cannot stand equality. He does not understand that. Equal is one. So, I know that this and this is as one. It really has to be together, but if I feel myself 'I' and he feels himself 'I' and somebody says that we are like one, then we cannot stand that. It confuses us, because our brain, the way we relate to life, it is always this is more and this is less, closer, farther, taller, better looking, etc. It does not matter what, we have to differentiate between them and it will be easier for us.

We need to stop comparing them; we need to stop telling that they are brothers. No, we say that you are the big one and you are the little one. That gets rid of most of the conflicts: who is first and who is second. It is clear who is first. You are the first, you are the big one, and the second one, and you are the small one. They need to know this. This is according to nature, according to the laws that are accepted in all nations. We are just emphasizing this thing. So, he was born a quarter a minute earlier and not few years, but still there is a difference, and we need to respect it.

Nitzah: I just want to clarify you gave an example of twins. I understand from what you are saying is true for brothers...

Dr. Laitman: It does not matter how much time there is between them.

Nitzah: Just the opposite. You gave the example of twins and you are saying even in twins where there are 15 minutes between them...

Dr. Laitman: Now, with twins, it is more of a problem, because we educate them together, we spend time with them together, we take them together to all the places. It is as if we have the same attitude to them, we buy each ice cream, and they have the same games. In their mind and feelings, they are the same and there is no difference, so here it is more difficult. I still need to say, “first you and then him, give to him, he is smaller and you deserve it, because you are bigger.”

Nitzah: Why is this principle so important?

Dr. Laitman: In that I cannot play around with how they will treat one another.

Nitzah: Why is it important for the big one to know that he is the bit one and for the small one to know that he is the small one? What does it do for them psychologically?

Dr. Laitman: In nature there is nothing that is equal to another thing. It is us who are confused. And we, through our corrections, have to make everyone equal, but by completing one another. By the corrections that a person does on himself, he reaches the state where the other person is like him. But from the beginning, we have to see the differences, because then it will be easier for us to reach equality.

Therefore, the whole way of correcting humanity... we were equal in the old days in tribe and then we through thousands of years of development, where everyone is more or less than the other in all kinds of perceptions. We then reach the state where we are all connected, we are in a global world, we all depend on one another and then we have to be equal. But how are we equal? Here we have to work on equality. Nature from the beginning is bringing us through a lack of equality to equality. And, in general, how can we put it? A person hates being equal to another. And if we say you are brothers, it is as if we are cancelling them. So saying, “Not you, it is the other one.” It is like he does not feel that he is special. You are smaller, you deserve more, you are bigger, and you deserve more. Everyone deserves what they deserve. And then each feels that he is special.

Nitzah: It is a very interesting principal I have to say. It makes me think.

Dr. Laitman: I see that people and see that one is five and another is three. They are brothers, they have to get along. No. I would even say that we need to emphasise even less that they are brothers. Why is it my fault that I am his brother? It is not that I wanted it, or asked for it, or desired it, but suddenly I am obligated somehow. It has to be obligated through education and not by the fact that my mother gave the birth to both of us, the same mother, the same woman, so I owe her something. I do not feel it. Just the opposite: between us there is competition that we came from the same source. Who is closer to the source? Is the mother closer to him or me? There are negative things and we need to emphasize that you are brothers, and then I kill him. Our ego does not want to suffer another person next to us, especially that we need to divide our mother into half: half for me, half for him, etc. At home, I also divide everything half and half. A person cannot stand that. I do not want anyone to remind me of that.

Before my brother was born, who is five years younger than me, my parents made a separate room for me. I had a room, but now it was a separate room and then he would be closer to them. They compensated for it. They would always make sure that I would not feel that I am missing something nor feel neglected. When I would go with my father somewhere and play, my mother would look after him. I did not feel that I was rejected.

Nitzah: First of all, I have to say that this principal is really interesting, because naturally as parents, we have an inclination to give a feeling like if we buy something: I buy for you and for you. And if I do something: It is for you and for you. There is a fear to create a fear of neglect.

Dr. Laitman: I do not think they feel that you bought something, that you gave them a gift. If the other received the same as me, then I do not feel that it was a present. It is not a gift. I do not even feel like keeping it. You need to understand a person's ego, he wants to feel they gave me, they brought me, and suddenly I see he got the same thing. It has lost its value.

Nitzah: It is very interesting. I just started to understand what art... especially in differentiating them...

Dr. Laitman: He is special in that and he is special in that. Great. But they relate to me that they are not comparing me. I do not want to be compared. I am special. We spoke about it I think, when we talked about...

Nitzah: Couples meeting each other?

Dr. Laitman: When a woman and man meet, say that you are special.

Nitzah: But here it is like a foundation. Children when they are born as brothers, the child does not know why he is special since he is small. So actually, there is some work and now I am starting to understand as a parent, I have to always help the children, help each one in the family to understand how special he is, each one separately.

Dr. Laitman: I do not give compliments to one in front of the other.

Nitzah: Do not give compliments to one in front of the other?

Dr. Laitman: No, not unless he is truly special in something. Because in that, I am automatically harming the other one.

Nitzah: I want you to teach me how to do it correctly, because I feel that it is a real challenge.

Dr. Laitman: It is really simple. There is you and another woman.

Nitzah: Not a sister.

Dr. Laitman: No, it does not matter who. It does not matter. I did not choose this brother and a man comes and says, “What a nice haircut you have, you look really nice, let us get to work and start to work on something together.” How do you feel?

Nitzah: That I do not want to be part of it.

Dr. Laitman: Why? He is just...

Nitzah: Because she got all the attention.

Dr. Laitman: You were not expecting attention, but the fact that he related to one person and not to the other and you are harmed that is why I do not compliment one child in front of another child. That is called harming him. It is as if I am putting him down automatically. If it gets up, it goes down. And the opposite.

With girls it can be even worse, but if there is a boy and a girl, then it is a different story. The differences are so natural. It is in nature, so this is no problem. It does not awaken jealousy, you do not have to say to her... You can even say to him, “you jumped so high,” and you can say to her “what a nice hairdo.” The others, they cannot apply to the other. Here, this is no problem.

But it is two boys or two girls, it is a real problem. And here we need to understand that children are very, very sensitive. And even if I take one and arrange some clothes for him, that he really needs, and then I also need to pay attention to the other one, even if I gave him some attention, I gave him a sign; I gave him a gift compared to the other, and that can be a problem. We must reach connection between us in education so that we will reach such a place that it is possible. But these things remain with us for life, as we know. That all kinds of things that happen in childhood, such as mommy doing more for him or for her. Unless, God forbid, he is sick then also we need to take the other to help the mother and father treat the sick one. It also has to be a special mission.

Nitzah: Now, you said something about... I am running into it a lot with my friends and family. You see kids that had a great connection and they were not neglected and they have this confidence, a very high self-esteem. This is also true, even older people. I have a friend who is a grandmother and when we meet, she talks for two or three minutes about her grandchild and then she starts talking about her brothers. It is a feeling of neglect that does not disappear, why is it so strong?

Dr. Laitman: Our ego is eternal.

Nitzah: Why is there really something in the connection between brothers that burns so deep in us?

Dr. Laitman: Because the Creator apparently obligates me, not to corrections, but by obligating me to love him. A mother and father is one thing: they look after me, so I am somehow connected and it is natural for me to return to them when I receive from them when they are older, etc.

But him, the brother that was born? I did not invite him, I did not want him, and he is my competitor. Mommy and daddy have to invest to him on my account. When I was alone, I was the king in the family and suddenly he came. Here there has to be a correction, meaning, I did not invite him, I do not need him and the Creator brought him in. So, this anger is truly very big. I feel that the room, the table, everything has to be divided into two.

Nitzah: And the good case is that it is half.

Dr. Laitman: When there are more kids it is even easier, because now it is a mess. So, if there are a lot of kids that obligates a person to get along. That is a different story. If there are a lot, than he sees that the way, the relationship he has to someone else exists between the others as well. And then he learns from others how actually to compromise more. Then there is nothing to divide really, because the mother belongs to everyone. After two it is much easier.

Nitzah: It is interesting.

Dr. Laitman: And afterward, there are just a lot of kids. A lot of kids is no problem.

Nitzah: So, when there are three, this issue of the sandwich child that you... you are the big one, you are the small one, and what am I? I am somehow stuck in the middle.

Dr. Laitman: For sure, that we need education.

Nitzah: Exactly. I am a mother with four kids, and I understood that you are the big one and you are the small one. Of course, I have to identify the uniqueness of each. What would I do with the middle child? In Israel there are a lot of families with three kids and the middle child does not feel big and he does not feel small. He is in the middle.

Dr. Laitman: There is no uniqueness, but I think that the way we are talking, then everyone needs to get education. You need to connect them with the whole family the way we spoke of, in such a manner that they always feel themselves as completing one another.

Nitzah: You mean to build them... let us say I am a mother of three. I have to build them like a team, like the big one. Not just that he is the big one, he organizes stuff, and the little one brings the joy, the audaciousness. And the middle one let us say he brings the...

Dr. Laitman: The middle one usually brings the solidness, because he learns from the bigger one towards the smaller one that he has to be bigger and how to treat the smaller one he learns from the one older than himself. So, it turns out that he is the most stable and if the education is correct, he has to be the most successful.

Nitzah: It is interesting. He balances it out.

Dr. Laitman: He has to be like the big one to get away from the small one. And that is what pushes him and he can be more successful. He can succeed more than everyone. The middle one, if we look at it in the egoistic manner, we feel him not towards that and not towards that and with the correct education, he has the foundation to succeed more than anyone.

Nitzah: I think that a lot of sandwich children would be happy to hear it, because it is the balancing element. I do not think we have thought about it. How do I, as a mother, start correctly building this connection in the family, this bonding? How I create it slowly?

Dr. Laitman: Which family?

Nitzah: Let us say I have three kids. How do I begin to integrate them, and in every situation, how do I create this perception that at this point this child is special and each one has their place?

Dr. Laitman: First of all, it has to start from birth. Even before birth and from birth and onward. When we do workshops, round tables, we sit together in our living room, the mother, the father, all the kids, even the one we are holding in our arms. It does not matter, if the little ones understand or not, they know this is the order of things: that we sit down and this is what we do. Either around the table where we have a meal, it does not matter how. But there is some kind of ritual happening and there is a tradition in the family and this is what we do. And then we talk, we ask. It does not necessarily have to be like in a workshop, but they are used to the families having some kind of talking, consulting with one another, and opening our hearts. We know or we do not know and we are raising doubts, issues; maybe it should be like this or like that. We need to give an example to the kids and when they get an example; suddenly they start to take things out of themselves. They just need an example like we have always said: that education is through examples.

First of all, it is the mother, and the father talking, and telling what happened to them in the street, at work. Not just gossip that is clear, but in a manner that expresses that “maybe we should feel like this or maybe we should do that.” Kids need to get these examples, up to when they receive; they want to speak, to open their mouths. And those who cannot speak, they still have an urge and they want it, etc. And in that, here next to the table we are trying, as we said, like throughout the workshop, we are trying to emphasize that everyone is equal. There is no sandwich; there is no big one or small one.

Nitzah: Okay, this is interesting, so explain to me. On the one hand, you are saying “show the differences,” but then when we are talking...

Dr. Laitman: We are equal and in the workshop, everyone is equal.

Nitzah: Equal in what respect?

Dr. Laitman: That each has the same ability, the same time, and the same rights.

Nitzah: The same rights?

Dr. Laitman: So, the equality is the rights. It is not like you have to turn 18 to vote. A child is born; he is part of the family. That is it. It does not matter: girl, boy, big, small. He has to feel that he is really sitting on my knee and he even cannot walk yet, but he is sitting, we need to give him this feeling and not shut him up or give him a pacifier. He needs to truly feel that he is also being involved. He wants to show something with his hands and feet. It does not matter. It is very, very important because this connects him to the family. This is what will tie him to the family in the future, as well knowing that the family for him is that same activity where we sit between us.

People did not just invent for the whole family to eat together in the evening. Nowadays, it does not happen in the evening, but that is how it used to be. In the morning, he has a couple of coffee with something, during the day he makes himself a sandwich and in the evening he eats with the family. They did not make it up for nothing. It was so the whole family would be together around the table and feel that it was a family. So, it can be twice a week, at least. Of course, on the weekend, it can be an hour or two or more, eating and all kinds of laughing, and in the middle of the week also we sit down a bit. No one runs off to their rooms where there are games or something, nothing. This has to be so holy in the house that nobody will even think, even when a child is older, of doing otherwise. We can check, if we determined it as something that is in his life or not. That he will never even try since he knows that this is above everything.

Nitzah: The family time is holy. Now I as a mother, am trying to imagine myself sitting in a conversation like that and right away, I am saying to myself, “what message do I want to clarify in our discussion today with my kids,” because usually I can tell any story that I want. So the question is what kind of message do I want to convey to the children?

Dr. Laitman: It does not matter what the message is as long as it is more or less interesting for everyone and that each one will say a few words about it. That is it.

Nitzah: So, you mean that I do not have to plan in advance?

Dr. Laitman: It is desirable. Something about the issues in the family, the neighborhood, or the city, it does not matter what. The bicycle broke: it does not matter what. Something that can be the general subject.

Nitzah: Now in this discussion I am telling them some certain situations?

Dr. Laitman: You do not need to tell them about the situation. You can whitewash, go over again the loss of workshop again and again. Like why when we sit down together, maybe we will create a situation when today only one person will speak, tomorrow another person will speak, or each time when we sit down each of us has to say something. What's better? Let's take it as a subject. Because it has to do with expression, equality, the fact that each one has to feel everyone, because in a workshop, what does it mean that everyone is equal? It means that we come out of the workshop as one. How can it be that one person will speak? Everyone has to talk, everyone has to participate. During the workshop we hold hands a bit, before or after, and we feel that we are really in connection with the parents and everyone. Meaning, there is a process here of connection, of warmth in its completion. The end and the conclusion have to be that until next time, we have signed a covenant again. And we need to try to do it as emotional as possible and important to such an extent that the kids will not be able to break it. That for them it will be some type of natural border inside them that above that, they do not go. The fact that we belong to the same workshop; the same family is actually a family. Those are the borders of the family. And that remains with us for always.

Nitzah: Now, let us say that there is a certain attribute I have towards some child. There is a certain child that gets mad, and there is another child that likes to disturb us more. Do we allow this to be expressed?

Dr. Laitman: We do not talk to anyone.

Nitzah: We never bring it up? We are completely not allowed to talk about one of the children's attributes?

Dr. Laitman: It is important to understand what we are not supposed to do. I do not want to even hear about it, because a person cannot rise above his ego. He is not in attainment; he is not in a psychological or spiritual high level that he can hear opinions about himself in an objective manner. No, we are talking about some kind of Moshe, the neighbor from a few blocks down, and not even next door. He is like this and this and this. It just so happens that he lives near us and it has nothing to do with him. And then, in this roundabout way, we express our attitude to the same attribute and how it does not look so good to us. But, it is on a complete stranger, to such an extent that he will not even feel that we are talking about him. And we never say to one child: now we are going to talk about someone, but we mean him, God forbid. It has to be really very, very objective.

Oren: I did not get it.

Dr. Laitman: I am saying to the oldest child, “now we are going to talk about someone, but actually I am talking to the little one for him to learn from it about what he did it was not good.” We should not say that to the big one.

Oren: Even if the smaller one does not hear?

Dr. Laitman: No, because then the older one will understand that we did the same thing to him. It is like manipulation. Now, if read something, saw something, such as an example from TV, from a movie or something that they are watching in their world, some hero or something. And I start talking. Peter Pan or Superman, something else like that, some Duck, it does not matter, but some hero. Is that character a hero or not? Is that bear a hero, when he goes into the forest and hits everyone? What is heroic about it and what is not? Where is his aggressiveness, his lack of sympathy? You can teach a lot like that from cartoons. They are great for building an education system, because they are all rubbish. They are all based on pride and how one cheats the other and the hero goes and tramples everyone.

We can actually awaken a philosophical attitude to life. They need to see that there are lots of opportunities based on these characters or on the neighbors. The neighbors are not so good, because it already puts them in some kind of critique. But we need to take examples like this and actually speak about them, and God forbid, not about anyone.

The recognition of evil has to be on the person himself like on the big person. We do not say to a person “you are bad, you are doing this and this.” We do not judge him, ever. We never judge him inside the family. We never judge him. We do not lynch him among five or six family members. How bad he was and what can we do? And not even how to help him. No. He is not a poor person and there is no way to help him unless he asks us, and then we will talk about how to help him. Let us say that in the middle of the workshop he says, “Look, I have a problem like this and like this.” So, we ask him, “How can we help you?” But even then, the help has to be in support, by encouraging him that he is big and strong and capable and how we support him. We never put anyone in the family down. We are always concerned not to lower their confidence.

Nitzah: How can we bring this to the family discussion? I am trying to see how I can, in a creative manner, bring about this discussion from another angle. Let us say I read a story and I can do a discussion through that or through a small move and we can have a discussion.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, there are tons of opportunities. Open some book, it does not matter what. You can get a lot of impressions from life. You can go that way.

Nitzah: I remember when I was small my parents, especially my father, always used to read me a story with a lesson. So, now, do it during the workshop.

Oren: I have a question. You said before to be careful at the moment we look at some act that someone did, to be careful. You said to not talk about the neighbor, because it will make him critical. What does it mean? I do not understand. The fact that we are doing it, we are being critical we are looking at something.

Dr. Laitman: We are verifying an attribute. We are talking about this attribute, how undesirable it is. Not a person, but an attribute. The fact that this attribute is just in some person is how it appears to us. Maybe anyone who puts someone down is putting himself down. The fact that we see bad in someone else is that we are actually seeing the bad in ourselves. It is not the end of the verification.

Oren: Our goal is to verify that a certain attribute is negative? What attribute, for example?

Dr. Laitman: Being a cheapskate. Saving money is good, but being cheap is another story. Being generous is a fourth thing, throwing money out is a third thing and those things, you know, you can have a lot of discussions about that and then suddenly the child will begin to understand that it is not just like that. And later when you start to say to him “no” that we cannot afford, or daddy is a cheapskate, “no, daddy is saving money,” no, but rather the opposite. He wants us to use the money for something else. Daddy is actually concerned and logical, etc.

You can develop inside him all kinds of forms of perceptions. But do not hang it on people. Do not stick it to people that are known, and that he knows. Because then it will remain with him for life. This one is a cheapskate; this one is a bit of a witch, that one is sneaky. It is not worth it. We are talking about attributes. Address those attributes in a person. Telling me about the person is like this and like that. Let us make a picture like this, or a story. Make a story about someone who is cheap. About anyone. But not about the faults that are easy to see in the family. Say, somebody has a stutter. Nobody talks about that. Nobody says we are going to talk now about a person who stutters where there is a kid next to me who stutters. That is clear.

Nitzah: The principal behind it, as I understand.

Dr. Laitman: It is not just that. There is no such thing that can be changed. We never relate to a person. We always relate to attributes that can be completed and balanced out. Therefore, I do not point to a body, I point to an attribute. It can be in someone or not.

Nitzah: Meaning, we spoke about an attribute and not something that is wrong and not the person carrying the attribute.

Dr. Laitman: Otherwise, it will turn out that we are gossiping or that we like to gossip. No.

Nitzah: I have another question. Let us say a person has a certain fault. There is nothing wrong. It is part of him and there is nothing we can do. It is not something... let us say, a characteristic that he can learn to use properly, but if he has something wrong with him, he cannot change this. So, how do we treat something that is wrong with him?

Dr. Laitman: We do not talk about it.

Nitzah: Anything that cannot be changed and is not really dependent on me?

Dr. Laitman: There is nothing to speak of. Because what is the point?

Nitzah: Let's say the child is short or he stutters.

That is it. Even though it takes him five minutes to say a sentence, we wait. We wait. Or we start to talk in such a way, in singing, so it will be easier for him and for us. But truly, we do not correct anyone, but give an opportunity to everyone to discover what needs to be corrected in him and only with our help, support, our external support, will he correct it.

Oren: I want to...

Dr. Laitman: These are laws between people. That is clear, right? Not just between kids. There is no difference.

Oren: Again, I want to get into issue of criticizing. I understood that we should not talk about people that we know, because they will have stigmas for the rest of their life.

Dr. Laitman: Our criticism has to be internal, practical and it has to be that I am correcting myself toward that same person about whom I have criticism. I start by first of all, being quiet. I am quiet. It is not my place to correct anyone. I can only somehow, in some external very far off way, help him to get to know the evil within him and correct himself. We are not correcting. Our education is not to correct. Our education is not to discover evil in anyone, even in a child. If he does not discover the evil within him, than all my pressure will just be as forcing him and it will not help. In that I am not helping him reveal the evil, just the opposite: I am putting his evil even further within and then it will remain for life and he will not be able to correct it. I am causing him harm for life.

Nitzah: What? What are you saying? It is important to clarify what it means when I pressure him...

Dr. Laitman: He has to protect himself. I never say to a child. Let's say in an ideal manner, of course, this is not what usually happens, but in really urgent cases when he can really ruin something. But I never talk to a child about bad things, faults, attributes, negative and not correct, or not good. It does not matter what, I do not say anything. I am silent. First of all, silence, as if nothing is happening. Not that I am being silent and he understands that something is not okay. No. As if nothing is happening. And in all kinds of sophisticated ways I try, in a very hidden manner, to help him discover these attributes, these incorrect characteristics, that will help discover the evil within him, so he will hate them and will get away from them. In very, very special cases, I am looking for examples of how to give him hints about his behavior, this or that behavior. And if I see that there is a lot of damage, then I stop him. But here we need to understand that it is not desirable.

Oren: Can you give me an example?

Dr. Laitman: I do not know. Tell me what and I will give you an example.

Nitzah: An example about a negative attribute?

Oren: No, I want an example for this whole situation. How he goes through it without criticizing the child in a personal, direct manner, and without showing him that what he did is not okay and how he is making up some kind of trick where they are discussing, not his behavior, but about this attribute and we succeed not feeling that it is something incorrect and we also do not put him into a feeling that I did this whole roundabout hint about himself. So, it looks really impossible.

Dr. Laitman: Because we do not want to shame him. It is like in the group. In the group we need to cause, through our external environment, we need to create thought and attitude that a person will feel what is good and bad. And he will criticize himself and he will want to correct himself. That is what the recognition of evil is. What is the recognition of evil that I come up to you and say that I have discovered this evil in you?

Oren: You know why it is so hard for me to give you an example? I have lots of examples for everything to say, I have four kids. But it looks so impossible to implement, that I cannot think of example where you will have a foundation for this simulation. That is why I am finding it hard to give an example. What does it start with? It starts with certain behavior, negative behavior.

Dr. Laitman: We do not give criticism about anyone. Kids and parents do not give criticism to anyone else.

Oren: Do not criticize anyone else, in general?

Dr. Laitman: Yes. We are just concerned about looking good in the eyes of others. That is it. Each of us is concerned that others will feel good next to him. I want my family members to be happy that I am with them, that they gave birth to me and that I exist next to them. I have to reach a situation, where when I am at home, that I am the source of good for them, good feeling, good attitude, happiness, softness and a smile. Let us do exercises like that. Let us start with that.

Oren: What did you want to say, Nitzah?

Nitzah: I wanted to say that there is a principal that I am starting to understand. As parents, we have an inclination to say, “today you were bad” and the next day I can say “you were a good boy.” Suddenly I understand.

Dr. Laitman: You do not need to say “good boy.”

Nitzah: Suddenly I understand we should not say this either, because I am criticizing you, even when I am appreciating you. It is positive criticism.

Dr. Laitman: Sometimes you can say “you were special.” That is after some event, that there was some special event that we went to together, etc. Then we should encourage him. But not...

Nitzah: We should not say “today your behavior was bad, not you.”?

Dr. Laitman: No, no, no. Only in a special case, that we were in a certain place, and then you can truly give him your compliment.

Nitzah: So, my goal is actually... my job as a mother is to help the brothers in this space of the discussion find inside themselves what is good and bad. Not that I am pointing out to them what is good and bad, but they have to find it in themselves. That is the big difference.

Dr. Laitman: To make a long story short, at the end of the show, you understand that you have to go through the Integral Education.

Nitzah: Totally. It turns your head upside down.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. But the principal is simple.

Nitzah: What is it?

The correction is on the person himself: the small person and the big person. And the correction starts from verifying. Do not do bad and do good. It is to recognize that you are bad and only then to switch to good and to do the good. And in all these stages, we must not get into a person's business, since he needs to know himself what is good and what is bad. And gradually we help him through the family, through the environment to discover what's good and what's bad to such an extent that he will hate bad, he will get away from it and he will connect to the good. But the whole path is on him. Otherwise our education is not worth anything. Otherwise it is just like monkeys that you are hitting and that is it.

We should encourage them? Yes. But also gently, that he should not look for whether he is being encouraged or not. Otherwise he is just working for that. No, not for that. Your profit needs to be that you yourself wanted to be like that. Not that someone is looking at you and you are only doing it for that. That you are not stealing because that somebody can see you or catch you. The evil inclination of a person, that is it. It is all up to the person. We are only the environment.

Oren: Our time is up. Thank you very, very much, Dr. Laitman. Thank you, Nitzah. Thank you for being with us. Until next time, all the best. New life.

(End of the conversation)