eng_t_Dr. Laitman_2013-07-28_program_haim-hadashim_n216

Dr. Michael Laitman

A New life

Talk # 216 – Relationships Between Brothers

July 25, 2013

Oren: Hello, thank you for being with us here in the “New Life” educational series with Dr. Michael Laitman. Hello Dr. Laitman.

Dr. Laitman: Hello.

Oren: Hello Nitzah Mazos.

Nitzah: Hello

Oren: We want to learn, along with you, from Dr. Laitman how can we take all the relationships in our lives to a new place. A new place where we are connected, where the relations between us bring us good and joy in life instead of pain and endless conflicts. In order to understand how to do this at a practical level, away from the slogans, we try in each of these discussion to focus on a specific relationship in our lives and from there we can always make insights to all the other areas of our lives, to all the systems.

For example, today we are going to focus on the family unit and within it on a very special relationship: the communications between brothers. We are going to go in depth on the communications between brothers, which is completely similar to the communications between people in general, outside the house. We are going to do this conversation for the good of the parents. If we, as parents, know how to help our children build correct relations in the house, for sure it will also serve them outside the home. It will help them in everything they do in school, in nursery school, in the business world, and even in their future family. It can also help us as parents to know how to relate properly to the people around us.

In short, every time we speak about relationships, it is a tiny thing that has an entire world inside of it. Be with us, there will be a lot to take from this discussion. Nitzah, get us into the discussion.

Nitzah: Our topic today is this rich world that is called communication or sometimes a lack of communication. It ranges between jealousy and good relations between brothers. We know as parents that the moments when we are happy and full of pleasure are moments when our kids get along well together, have a good connection, and they understand one another. On the other hand the moments where we feel difficulty and sometimes even pain is when we see our kids are arguing, not understanding each other, and sometimes even doing things to each other. We stand on the side and we do not know what to do with it.

I can also say that many times as a mother we take responsibility for the situation and the connection between brothers because in some place we understand... Let’s put it like this, a mother that sees that her children do not get along well, she thinks or feels that it is the failure of her education that she gave them. Many parents would really really like to see how it is possible to build the home, the family, in such a manner that it will influence the brothers to have a good connection between them. You can also say that the connection between them is very dynamic. One day they get along great and everything is wonderful and the next day it all turns upside down, they are arguing and are violent and everything. There is something here that is very dynamic and changing all the time. It is not constant and this is what we wanted to talk with you about today.

So maybe the first question about the communication between brothers: what is the importance, what is the great importance that a child has inside the system of communication precisely between brothers.

Dr. Laitman: Look, I have something to say about what I am hearing. I am here in the integral education to develop the system of integral communication between human beings and this connection between people, that we will need to learn for our near future. Now we are in this process that nature is obligating us to transition from the old paradigm, the old economic system, technological system, industrial system, social system, familial system and in that of course education and everything else. All these systems that we built between us, all together, all these communication systems that we had, let’s say they were capitalistic systems by definition. You can no longer say they were post modernistic. Now we are transitioning to some new state. That is why the world is in a crisis in education, relationships between couples, brothers, sisters, and in general people and citizens in the country and people in the world. Everything is in some type of revision now: where are we headed, what do we need to change? Of course that entire system of communication that we had before is over. The fact that we are still holding on to it and do not see the future is just making things more difficult for us because we are bankrupt from the previous situation.

If the previous situation does not switch to the new situation then it is for our detriment. Everything good comes in its time. Let’s say we lived well together in one apartment as a couple. Everything was great and now it is over. We are not a couple: we have to stay in the same apartment even though we cannot stand each other, but there is nowhere else for us to go. In other words, the more we drag out the previous situation the more we extend all the negativeness, all the negative perceptions that we have from the previous situation, we are also making them deeper. So our crisis is deepening from continuing in the situation instead of trying something new.

Therefore now we are building the new situation. Just this building is the recognition of evil, what was bad, what could be good, to what extent this good can be implemented or cannot be implemented. This good relationships system and etc. So we are now in a state where we are verifying what we need to reach according to our attributes We are all in this transition and in this transition we see that people do not know what to do, they are looking for all kinds of advice from all kinds of directions.

So why am I still dedicating time to this topic of relations between brothers? Because in my opinion, according to my profession, to the extent that I understand the situation, we all have to reach a state that is like relations between brothers. We are all brothers as it says in the Bible. The whole world. And the whole world is apparently from the same mother and father. And there is a connection between us and this connection is obligating us from above, this is how we were born and developed and now we are in a situation like between brothers: each of us wants to control and to talk first to our mother and father, to get attention, and ride on the other, and reject him, and feel fulfilled and satisfied with that. These are natural urges that we have from the previous situations, but we need to see the new situation.

In the next state, the entire world will need to correct the situation. Not with just one family, one case here or there that are watching our show on TV, but rather we truly have to do this in a global manner. We have no choice. If we do not organize an environment that supports precisely the relations between us, we will not have a good relationship. Same goes for those kids. If we do not organize an environment that is always encouraging them to have the right connection, they will not connect. Because according to nature, everyone wants to eat the other. To control and ride him.

The future state, is again like I am saying, we are all one family. I am not even talking about Israel; I am talking about the entire world. We are advancing in this manner. We are all one family, we are all brothers, sisters, truly as close as possible. Not necessarily uncles, cousins, and all that there is in a family, no, we are all truly as coming out of the same mother and father. That is it.

Nitzah: So you are describing a situation, where at the end of the day we all have to reach a situation of love of brothers between us.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. Right now we are in hatred.

Nitzah: So first of all, why are we in hatred now? I am looking at what you have said now as a mother, as a parent. And I am trying to understand how I as a mother can influence my family.

Dr. Laitman: I understand that you have a narrow outlook and that is what you are interested in.

Nitzah: Correct. It is not just that it interests me. I think that, maybe I do not even believe that I can influence something big.

Dr. Laitman: But I want you to understand that you are a small detail in a very big problem. And that it is impossible to truly solve it. The individual and general are equal here in the correction. That is why I want us to have a wider perspective. Slightly. Not that you are just looking at the family and that those two kids are arguing, ayayay. We are in a global problem, a problem of the entire humanity. What are they missing? They are missing a connection between brothers, between everyone. And this is a big problem. That is why I am willing to sit and speak about this.

Nitzah: Nevertheless people were given brothers. I am trying to think why were we given brothers? In the family unit? Maybe it is some type of school?

Dr. Laitman: We spoke about the sons of Jacob, we spoke about Jacob and Esau. This matter starts with having a connection between us and this connection that is above us, from having the same father.

Nitzah: It is obligating us, because with brothers there is nothing I can do, I was born with these brothers, I did not choose them.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, and this connection to the father obligates me. If I am going according to this connection, I am obligated to connect properly with my brother. If this connection does not obligate me, then I do not care about having the same father, then I go against my brother and I am prepared to destroy him like Essau and Jacob. Our question for now is correct that we are now in the revelation of the natural connection between all of us, that we are in a global world that is showing us that there is a connection between every single person. To the extent that we are brothers and we have no choice, we are obligated to this connection.

So let’s return to the issue of the small family. I see it is too much for you. But just so you know, when I am talking, in front of me I have a wide system of the family of 7 billion. I am not dealing with a small family, but the same laws, attitude, and approach is necessary.

Nitzah: So in this lack of connection, there are many levels and perspectives. We want to start from a point that is very small and I am sure that every parent knows it, which is called bugging each other. There is always a desire to bug the brother. It can be the older one bugging the little or the opposite, the little brother bugging the older brother. We want to understand what this is, this bugging? Is it part of the communication between them? Is it something that can be prevented? Why does it happen?

Dr. Laitman: In our courses in integral education, I would recommend filming all the things that exist between children. And not just to bring them to these courses but to all our other courses where we are learning about human nature. So we will know how we relate to one another. What one child wants to do to another, especially when they are brothers, is precisely what happens between everyone. It is just that we are not really discovering it, but the urges are the same urges. Until you correct the evil inclination, it will remain. So we do it in a different way – with lawyers, with weapons, with all kinds of things, but it is the same thing.

Therefore, the entire system of relations between us in the human society is built according to this that we are truly as brothers, and we really want to bug each other like two kids in a family. Just as we have built between us all kinds of systems, it is truly just like those in a family that are in a war, throwing things at each other, cursing each other, and wanting to punish each other. To make a long story short, the entire system, the systems that we have – police, judicial systems, it all exists just to slightly distance us from one another and to sweeten things.

We need to truly understand that there is no chance to succeed in relations between kids if the adults do not give them an example, a powerful example that would obligate them to see a highlighted example that this is how things are between us. That the child goes with his father, with the entire family or goes to events where we are all connecting.

This means that we are actually returning to the state that once was in clans. Once upon a time we were in a society where we were all one family. There there was no such thing as wars because there the children were more among the parents and they showed them in a natural manner the good connection between them: that there is no competition, there is no such thing as one person hating another person but rather everyone is in their place. Then kids would know how to relate to it. We see also now, we see in research in primitive societies that that is how it is there.

So until there will be this atmosphere in our general society... We will be able to somehow educate people. But the influence of the big world around us that is all competitive, in hatred and all those things, these bad relations between everyone, looking down on other people, it is all limping along. It could get a bit softer, but we cannot really reach a good solution. The more that the society is modern, there is a greater and greater problem. This is clear.

Today we do not even want to hear about proximity to the family. You are born and that is it. Maybe not in a moment, but say at the age of 8 or 9, if he could maintain himself by himself, he would run away from home. I see it in kids today. They cannot stand it that someone is above them. Especially that there is someone besides him that is showing him a nice and good attitude. Since they are the parents.

What relationships are these? He already cannot stand this relationship: because I have parents, I have to love them. According to this they relate to me. Otherwise they will not treat me well, they are obligating me. Meaning, if I am obligated to do something, to arrange my things, to get a good grade that is me towards the system – okay fine, but the fact that I have to love someone, that is above the ability of the little person.

Therefore the question is like this: if we are advancing toward it, if we are approaching it we have to do it in a very systematic, delicate, gradual manner and to truly understand that here we can bend him. This bending will remain in him for the rest of his life. It is like you taking a piece of steel and bending it. That remains with him for life. You cannot force kids.

Nitzah: This means this entire process of building the correct relations between kids from the side of parents has to come not through force, but in a gentle and gradual manner? That is what you are saying?

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Nitzah: From your description, I just understood the greatness of the responsibility of a parent. Because actually between brothers or inside the house there is a model of a mini society. A small society that all the revelations that are in the home between brothers, more or less, become more sophisticated when kids get older. It is the same exact elements they just become more sophisticated just in a way that things will not stand out.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. If we are thinking about an integral society meaning general, that each individual belongs to the general and the general belongs to each individual then we all belong to this connection. Then it is not possible that if we go to the public that we will not correct the individual.

It will always be like this. I also have a problem. Let’s say that I will make kids as many as I have. I will make really ideal kids. They will all be able to connect and what is going to happen next? They go out to the world and there it is the strongest that succeeds and the one that lies. Maybe I am making them people that will look really sick and undeveloped, not even suited for that same environment that they need to go out to. We need to gradually correct our children, gradually, and also look after the greater society in the same way.

Nitzah: Let’s take what you have said now. I understand that you are describing something, let’s say it is a constant sea of education. You cannot educate the kid in one way at home and at school he get a completely different educations.

Dr. Laitman: Correct.

Nitzah: So let’s say at the systemic level of school it is a different discussion but now assuming that my child is going to go to a school that is really going to teach according to this method I still have a role at home. I do not think I need to put my kid just to school and the school will look after him.

Dr. Laitman: Correct, that is what people usually do, but we are talking about a good addition.

Nitzah: Yes. So let’s talk from there. Let’s say there is some system like that. I want to look at this point of bugging each other. Let’s go into the psychology behind it. Because lots of people have an approach, why does one child like to bug the other one. Let’s say the big one is bothering the little one, it is possibly because he wants to get his parents’ attention. He does it because he sees that if he bugs them enough times then the parents will tell him to compromise.

Dr. Laitman: There are all kinds of reasons, but this triangle works.

Nitzah: What is this triangle?

Dr. Laitman: The parent and two brothers.

Nitzah: Is there a way to prevent it? Is there a way to work with it properly? What happens if we see that in our family there is a process that every second you hear in the air: “Mommy, he is doing it again. Daddy, he is doing it again.” How do we do it as parents?

Dr. Laitman: We need to forget the word communication, because communication starts from not having communication.

Nitzah: Yes from the lack of communication.

Dr. Laitman: No, a lack of communication is not what we think. Lack of communication is disconnection. Disconnection starts from physical disconnection. That we do not belong to each other, that we do not hear or touch each other, we do not see any form of connection even through the parents. We need to bring them to a state that they are each separate, as if one does not even feel that the other exists.

Nitzah: What do we as parents need to allow them to feel?

Dr. Laitman: We need to allow each of them to feel that they do not have a brother.

Nitzah: Why?

Dr. Laitman: Because when I am disconnected from someone, that is called a lack of connection or there is no connection. It is not a bad connection that exists and it is bad. Let’s do this first of all, let’s understand. And also between a couple it is the same thing. I hear it is one great confusion. There is no communication between us and then they talk for the next two hours. What kind of communication is there? We need to cut it off, we need to redefine it.

Nitzah: Is it necessary to define this from the beginning?

Dr. Laitman: Yes and no, not just in words but in actions.

Oren: I want to understand, we as parents, need to give each child a feeling that they do not have a brother?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, they do not have a brother.

Oren: How does a family with 3 kids do this in practice?

Dr. Laitman: I relate to each one separately. I never point one to the other. I never connect to both of them. I relate to each of them on purpose to emphasize that I am relating to each one separately. Like in a prison. I relate to each of them separately and not one to the other. Indeed not in this form but rather with love in everything. But I am emphasizing that I am not making connections between them.

Oren: How do you emphasize this?

Dr. Laitman: I am relating to you and to you separately, because their connection is through the parents. If not parents, they would not be brothers. They connect through me. They came out of me. If I relate to this one separately and that one separately, there is a part of me that relates to Jacob and a part that relates to Essau. I am torn inside. I am relating to that one like this and the other one like that. That is it.

Nitzah: What message do the children receive, when suddenly each one receives personal attention?

Dr. Laitman: That they do not have the same father. This we need to learn. I want to emphasize that we are missing the explanation of a relationship here. And now I am actually giving them the beginning of the feeling of what it means to be connected to one another, through one root. Through the father. That each one can see me as his father.

And if it is like that, then precisely afterward. I do not want to say I will be able to manipulate them, but I will be able to make changes in the relations between them in accordance with how I treat them. I am taking the reins into my hand. I am the upper one. I am the root. I am the one determining things. I am determining the connection between them.

I am talking about work that is not simple for the simple person. It is clear and it is also hard to express, but actually why am I talking about it like this? If we relate now not to the small family of brothers, some little family. If we are talking about the human problem that we need to connect to one another in a correct manner, then we as educators need to first and foremost show them the fact that they are disconnected or in a bad connection. We need to bring them to a situation that their good connection is dependent on us. And then they will profit if they listen to what we say, they will profit from what we recommend doing.

Without feeling that the connection between them is dependent on the connection with us, that this triangle works in such a way, it has no justification to exist.

Nitzah: Let’s try to clothe this into an example so that we will understand practically what the parent needs to do.

Dr. Laitman: What we will say now is true also for the future. We say that we will all connect with each other. If we do not achieve the upper root of all of humanity through which we can connect, we will not find the connection between us. We will not find it. We have to find this common father. We need to find our spiritual root, this term. I am talking about the side of the truth of the system.

Nitzah: Let me give you the picture that I have. I got it. So now I have a picture. It is a little bit complex that I feel that there is something connecting us, let’s say there is circle around the table, around the circle there is the center and there are kids sitting around. Let’s say 4 kids are sitting around. Now I imagine that one is not connecting with the other directly…

Dr. Laitman: Correct, they are only connecting through the center. This is truly the nature of the relationship between them. They need to understand that any connection between them, as brothers is through the father, only though the father.

Nitzah: Where is the mother in this picture?

Dr. Laitman: Also the mother is in the picture. The connection is through the parents. And if it was not for the mother and father, there cannot be any connection between them. The connection is always through the mother and father.

Nitzah: So I understood that there is a certain model, but now I want to understand how this works practically.

Dr. Laitman: This model is much bigger than this. It is the model of the tree of life that develops in this way from Adam and Eve. You cannot really see it but from that same mother and father that we all have. From that same first couple that we all came from at the end of the day. Then through them we are going back to them through this whole hierarchy. That is how we are connected. And it is not that there is no connection between us here, between the 7 billion here, but rather through this entire system right up to this upper first couple.

That helps us to understand that the connection is truly integral. It is truly global. And it is truly never between us in the same generation in the space between us. And if we take into account all these connections between us, where we are connected, and that we influence and they influence us back then we will be able to build a good connection between us as well with responsibility and love.

Oren: I understand that this principle is correct on all the levels: on the level of the family with three children and all of humanity throughout all generations. But as a father to 4 children, I did not really understand these things. You said that the parents need to give each of the children a feeling that they do not have a brother.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. Like we are now. They are always arguing, they are in separate rooms, in the side rooms. In the worst case they are in one room. There is no connection. Let’s say I go into a hotel and they say that there are no rooms, we can only give you a room for 2 people, there are two beds, not one bed, but you are both in one room. Here, if you want, go into one room. I will go into one room, what does the other do? “Hello.” We are polite, we do not touch each other, we allow each other to be comfortable and that is it.

If not for friendly or social relations that are closer than family relations, then everything ends. We need to reach this situation first of all. This is the initial state.

Oren: Wait, I do not understand this. I do not understand the order of the process. This situation shows that there is no connection between them.

Dr. Laitman: No, there is a connection, but a bad connection. It is not that again there is no connection. I want to bring them to a lack of connection.

Oren: There is a bad connection. You said to me: my goal as a parent is first of all to bring them to feel that they do not have a brother, and now you add that they have no connection between them.

Dr. Laitman: This is called that there is no connection.

Oren: This is the first station?

Dr. Laitman: Yes. As if one has nothing to do with the other. He is not a family member. Each to the other is like a stranger. I need to educate them, educate them meaning give examples of relations where each one will see and feel himself in all kinds of relations towards the other. I need to teach them how to connect to the other. So of course I say it. I say it and give an example of everything.

Oren: But here you taught us the exact opposite.

Dr. Laitman: No, now the mother brings them to eat. I am sitting and eating. When I receive something I say thank you to the mother as if we are in a meal and we are eating breakfast at the same hotel. You came from your room and she came from her room and we are sitting and eating.

Oren: You are the father in this story?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, I am the father and I present these relations. They need to understand that it is not for nothing that they are arguing with each other. They do not have any other form of behavior. Of course I want to give them a few examples. They need to know how to behave. That there are forms of behavior and relations like this. Why are these behaviors worthwhile for me compared to my current behaviors? And how I, as a sister, can behave like this, or like that in all sorts of places, not only with my brother in the room.

Oren: So in stage one you disconnect.

Dr. Laitman: And it does not matter what there was before, First of all disconnection.

Oren: And you bring this first stage as a disconnection, as a parent that understands this process. You lead this process and they are treating you, like mother and father, as one unit.

Dr. Laitman: That is children who are already in the integral education: 8, 9, 10 years old, not the little kids that do not understand what I am doing all of a sudden.

Oren: if I have one that is above this age and one that is below?

Dr. Laitman: It could be that I relate only to one and not exactly to the other.

Oren: Okay, let’s understand the principle first and then we will define it. Let’s go with it. Let’s say that the ages are 8 and older.

Dr. Laitman: Let’s say that they are both 10 years old. You can really show them all the forms. And now you are polite to them, like strangers. The two of us, mother and father, also sit and eat like this.

Oren: As if each one is an only son.

Dr. Laitman: Let’s say that we are running a small hotel in my house, like there is in all sort of places, like a small hostel. And they came to have breakfast. Then there is a table and we are sitting around the table even with the owners of the hotel and we are eating breakfast. This is how you relate to them. They see coldness. Not that I am doing it precisely to demonstrate it, but we are truly in these roles.

Oren: We are dressing as the owners of this hotel.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, that is our character. They are separate from us and each one has nothing to do with the other. We do not talk to two. We do not relate to two. We relate to each one separately.

Nitzah: Can the parents be in contact between themselves?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, the parents can be in contact between themselves.

Oren: They are like the service of the hotel.

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Oren: This means it is like I would serve you or Mrs Nitzah who is sitting at the next table and there is no connection between you.

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Oren: But how do I express it? Because here is a good example: we are at one table. We are in the same kitchen.

Dr. Laitman: So what?

Oren: I will bring you food. You are guest number 1 and Nitzah she is guest number 2.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. “What do you want? And what do you want?” And so forth. And you relate to each one separately. You never talk about two. It has nothing to do with two, nothing, there is no connection between you. Relating in a very very separate way to each one.

Oren: They will not be in shock?

Dr. Laitman: We put ice between them. Like a wall between them. In these relations, they will not even understand what is happening.

Oren: Due to this I am asking: they will not be in shock from this?

Dr. Laitman: No, we are being polite to one and polite with the other, not with love, but we are holding back to each of them. Of course they are in shock, of course, so what?

Oren: Ok, that is the desired result, even natural. What is next?

Dr. Laitman: And this is how we are continuing.

Oren: For how long?

Dr. Laitman: We will see according to the response. The response should be that the both of them feel, but really feel and not through explanations or anything. They feel that by the way we relate to them that something is happening between them toward us. First of all they are feeling, “what is happening with my parents.”

Oren: They feel that something in us has changed.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. They are trying to return to the previous state. That is first. And the second thing is that we are planting between them this separation. We are really inviting this separation. By relating to each one separately they will begin to feel that they are not connected.

Oren: How will you identify it as a parent?

Dr. Laitman: By the fact that the relations are cooling off between them. Less fighting. Less hitting, less bugging each other. There might even be a stage where they get close to each other because they are lacking warmth from us, they are missing attention from us. Like two little puppies that see that the mommy disappeared, so they keep each other warm. This is how we relate to them: that in our eyes there is no connection between them. That is it.

Nitzah: So for sure, they are going to try to use the previous techniques, “Mommy say something to him, he did this.” What does the mother do in that situation?

Dr. Laitman: She does not respond, she does not react. She is not even paying attention to anything that is happening there, nothing. To the extent that I disconnect the connection between them, I have to cool off my connection to them as well.

Oren: What is the goal of this phase that we called phase 1?

Dr. Laitman: The goal of this phase is to bring about the correct connection, the good connection. If the good connection is that we do not talk at all then we do not talk. If the correct connection is that we are polite then we will be polite to one another. If the good connection can be in that we are hugging, then we will hug, but it has to be a good connection. We will define the extent of the good connection.

Oren: That is already the second stage?

Dr. Laitman: Yes

Oren: So the first stage was disconnection, the second stage is starting to build a connection?

Dr. Laitman: Building the good connection.

Oren: That is the second stage.

Dr. Laitman: Yes. And if it is not good, then we are not going for it. There is no such thing.

Nitzah: So who builds the good connection? It looks like it is happening between the kids.

Dr. Laitman: Correct. And to extent that it happens between the kids, then we are also ready and capable to join in. The kids begin it. Of course.

Oren: Then I do not have to make this border between the stage one and stage two?

Dr. Laitman: No.

Oren: I cool off.

Dr. Laitman: You are not cooling off. You are disconnecting the bad connection. You disconnected the bad connection until they begin to feel that it is worth it for them to be in a good connection.

Oren: On their own?

Dr. Laitman: On their own. And then they connect themselves in a good way. To the extent that it is correct, I join this good connection. I will always come after them.

Oren: What do you mean to the extent that it is correct?

Dr. Laitman: It means that when souls connect, they invite a connection between them to the upper mother and father. Otherwise no.

Oren: You said that to the extent that it is correct, I join the good connection. How do you measure if it is correct or not?

Dr. Laitman: Because they awaken me in the love between them. Until there will be love between them, connection between them, they will not be able to awaken me. I am not feeding off one or the other, I am feeding off the connection between them. Me as a father, like “our father in the sky.”

Nitzah: Not responding to anyone privately.

Dr. Laitman: It is not from each of them separately, only from the togetherness. That they are reaching love and from their love they are awakening me as a father. Then I am relating to them, not to each one of them separately, but to the connection between them. And through the connection between them they receive attention from me. Through let’s say the middle of the group. It does not matter what you call it.

Nitzah: Let’s say there was an argument and we decided now as parents to activate this issue of the lack of connection. I do not announce anything, I just decide I saw an argument and now I am going to do it. Now we are going to implement the disconnection process. So it means that I start acting towards each individually.

Dr. Laitman: Not even. Start relating to them that you have had enough. Up to here. You relate just to the father. And the kids, you do not relate to them at all. Except basic things: clean shirts, give them basic services. And nothing beyond that.

Oren: You mean warmth and attention?

Dr. Laitman: Yes. Because warmth and attention you want it to be dependent on the warmth of the relations between them. Your relation to them has to be suited to how they treat one another.

Nitzah: In other words, the moment you really disconnect the relation, then the children have nothing to fight over. Basically no one is getting anything and the argument is somehow always about getting attention from the parent.

Dr. Laitman: Correct.

Oren: When the mother stops relating to the children and is only relating to the father, does she needs to emphasize the gap between her attitude to them and her attitude to the father? That to her husband she keeps treating him with warmth?

Dr. Laitman: The attitude to the children needs to be formal. And she does not need to overemphasize the attitude to the father. It needs to be in a natural manner, like it was before.

Oren: In other words, not to intensify this state.

Dr. Laitman: No, it is enough. But the mother and father always need to show the kids that they are in a zivug. That they are in this mutual connection. That they feel themselves as one.

Oren: Even in this process there is a mutual agreement between the parents regarding what is happening?

Dr. Laitman: Yes, always. They are acting as one body, there are no arguments or anything like that.

Nitzah: Children identify gaps.

Dr. Laitman: Therefore it is not good.

Oren: The parents need to decide between them the code of conduct before getting into the process.

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Oren: So we have two stages. Stage one is disconnection from our side as parents. Stage two is building the good connection. If I understand correctly, stage two is not even something active from my side. I am just viewing things from the side. As parents we are only providing the disconnection. Building the good connection has to come from the kids themselves. Then to the extent that the connection between them is good, we join it. You gave a condition like that. So that is the active thing that we do in stage two: joining the connection that they made?

Dr. Laitman: No, the kids need to awaken in the connection between them also some kind of invitation toward us, raising MAAN. It has to be from them to us, to mommy and daddy. They want through the connection between them to awaken the connection to us and they want a good attitude from us to them. Not in an informal manner.

Oren: Will this happen in them in a natural way because they are our children?

Dr. Laitman: Yes.

Oren: What does that mean that to the extent that it is correct then you react as a parent. You wait until it is going in the correct direction? What are the signs that it is in the good direction?

Dr. Laitman: That I really feel it from them. That they want to show that they are good kids, that they have a good connection between them. Through the connection between them they are turning to us, to the parents, only through the connection. I do not receive each one separately. Each one separately for me is like a client in the hotel.

Oren: In the beginning, you said that my goal is to allow them to feel that they do not have a brother. Each is a unit by themselves, isolated. Is that not opposite to what you have said in the beginning?

Dr. Laitman: In the beginning of the process, the attitude is like to each one that comes to a hotel. Each one that comes to my place is a client.

Oren: Your goal in stage 1 is to give them a feeling of isolation, it is like you are putting a wall between them.

Dr. Laitman: I do not say anything, but I start to relate to each of them in this manner. I actually disconnected my connection to them. I am supplying them with basic things, basic necessities for their existence. Like we exist in this world. Nothing from the upper world. Nothing. Only to the extent that you connect properly.

Oren: So what you did in this initial stage is the opposite of what you expect from them in response?

Dr. Laitman: Of course, but there is no choice. This is called education.

Oren: So I want to understand in order to implement it. First of all you isolate them, you put walls between them.

Dr. Laitman: It is not that I am putting walls between them. I said it like that for you to understand. I simply show them my attitude for their behavior. This is how I relate to them. That I do not want to be connected to them as a father to kids that behave like that. For me, they are not my kids in that situation. You want to be my kids? You need to be as brothers, as one body. Only to the extent that you are connected, you are my sons. To the extent that you are separated, you are foreign to me.

Oren: If so, why did you first go on making the separation greater, like guests in a hotel? “Hello, here is your breakfast, sir. Here is your breakfast, madam.”

Dr. Laitman: What choice do I have? How does education start?

Oren: In other words, I need to start the education from isolation.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, I isolate them because they are each in their evil inclination. This is how we are born. It is clear. And now you need them to first of all understand their nature. That they need to connect properly above their nature.

Oren: So I need to put them each into their own corners so that they will return to me together?

Dr. Laitman: So that they will understand that if they want to have a connection with me, they have to have a good connection between them. Their nature will never allow them to connect correctly. But the fact that they will have to be in connection with me, this will obligate them to be above their nature. And to connect between them in a good way. Doesn’t it remind you something of ours?

Oren: It is possible, but I am not focused on that at the moment. I am trying to understand what I need to do as a parent.

Nitzah: The rationale behind the disconnection is that the child who feels disconnected naturally starts to look how to connect. He does not really want to be cut off. Even when he is bugging his brother.

Dr. Laitman: He did not really want to be disconnected. He wanted to win something.

Nitzah: So actually it feels as if you took all the air out of the tires and he has no reason to fight.

Dr. Laitman: Not only that there is no reason to fight. He feels that he has no support. So he starts to awaken the support in his brother. Like two little puppies whose mother deserted them. So I am actually awakening them to a good connection, but in an indirect way.

Nitzah: By the way, what you said now is interesting. I knew friends whose parents had a bad connection between them and what happened? The kids really connected well to protect one another. Since they suddenly understood that they are alone.

Dr. Laitman: Yes, this is clear. This is what they do to protect themselves.

Nitzah: I understand that we are creating a situation like that. What are we achieving by this?

Dr. Laitman: A state that the children by themselves are looking for the good connection between them. And that is it. That is what we are achieving. What else? Through suffering from above we start understanding. From lack of choice we start understanding the right way.

So who is educating who? Are we really educating them? No. We always have to measure properly how we relate to them. By giving them this attitude from afar we do not allow them to get away from this condition: that the a good relation between them causes a good relation with us; and bad relation between them causes a bad relation with us. And then it turns out that they reach what is called revealed providence. You want to be in contact with mommy and daddy? Great, but only if you have a good connection between you. And then they instinctively take the key out for a good mutual relationship between them.

Oren: Ok, our time is up for this discussion. Thank you very much, Dr. Laitman. Thank you, Nitzah Mazoz. Thank you for being with us. You want good relations, let’s be in touch in the next “New Life”. All the best...