Food and Healthy Eating

A talk between scientist-Kabbalist M. Laitman and the instructors of International Academy of Kabbalah, E. Litvar and M. Sanilevich

February 7th, 2008

E. Litvar: I can’t exactly call myself a gourmet, but I really do love to eat. Since the title of today’s talk is “Food, the Upper Roots of Food,” I would like to find out where this desire for food in people comes from. For example, I would take pleasure in eating a small piece of something, and that would be enough. But no, I want this, this, and that.

M. Laitman: What is the reason for our need for food? The reason is in the soul, which separated into the still, vegetative, animal, and human levels, and to which there are the corresponding still, vegetative, and animal matter, and the human being in our world. The higher an object in our world is in its structure or complexity, the more egoistic it is. That means it strives for greater pleasure and greater fulfillment.

In the spiritual world, the fulfillment of the soul is fulfillment by the Upper Light, and it occurs only to the extent that there is bestowal and love, to the extent that souls unite with each other. In our world, fulfillment is the opposite: it is egoistic, only for one’s own sake, only in order to satiate and fill ourselves, even excessively.

Every plant or even every mineral need to take in some energy from the outside in order to maintain and support its structure, and all of this occurs simply according to natural laws. In general, the main problem of the whole animal world, including the human being, is food. All animals eat only as much as is necessary for their life maintenance, and they do not separate food into more tasty or less tasty (differentiations do exist, of course, but they are very insignificant).

However, a person supplements his animal instinct with egoism, and therefore we overfill ourselves. This is the reason for many of our illnesses and sufferings.

E. Litvar: But I want to understand why some people can limit themselves when it comes to food, and I cannot stop. I know that I eat much more than I need to, but I still eat.

M. Laitman: Well, these are purely psychological needs. A lot depends on lack of confidence, various fears, worries, a feeling of emptiness in something else—maybe on the moral or even the spiritual levels. A person compensates this with fulfillment from food.

If we could compensate fulfillment of our egoism in a different form—in the form of bestowal, as spiritual laws demand of us, then of course, we would have no problems with gluttony. In our world, on any level, there exist consumption and excretion, and on the human level it is more than that: excessive consumption and excessive excretion.

In the spiritual world, the concepts of consumption and excretion do not exist because only that which is necessary for the existence of the soul is consumed. The processes of bestowal and reception occur in the ideal form, simultaneously, and therefore there are no excesses right from the start.

E. Litvar: From what you said, it seems that there are restaurants and cafes in the Upper worlds.

M. Laitman: Of course. There is everything you can think of, on all the levels, with a vast menu, including all the types of suffering and all types of pleasure that can possibly exist.

E. Litvar: There is suffering in the Upper worlds?

M. Laitman: Suffering is necessary in order to feel pleasure. Let’s say you are a gourmet, and you begin to eat. First you need to warm up an appetite, drink a little, and, gradually, you eat one dish, then another, anticipating what will be next.

E. Litvar: And you call that suffering? It seems like pleasure to me.

M. Laitman: No, this anticipation of pleasure is based on suffering—after all, it is not there yet. Anything that does not fill a person at the present moment but will fill him in the future—such a state is called suffering in Kabbalah.

What is the meaning of an “appetite” in your opinion?

E. Litvar: I perceive an appetite as pleasure.

M. Laitman: How can it be pleasure if you do not know ahead of time whether you will in fact receive? We are talking about a desire that is necessary in order to receive pleasure. Suffering is the reverse side of pleasure; it is necessary, and particularly its measure, force, and intensity determine the pleasure that can be experienced afterward.

E. Litvar: But the menu is vast?

M. Laitman: The menu includes all the types of pleasure that exist in the universe overall. They are folded out into five portions called Nefesh, Ruach, Neshama, Haya, and Yechida. These are the five types of Upper Light, which provide absolute fulfillment to the soul; in other words, there is neither excess nor loss.

E. Litvar: In our world, a full dinner consists of five dishes.

M. Laitman: A person subconsciously strives to carry out what is instilled in his spiritual construction because our world is a reflection of this spiritual construction.

M. Sanilevich: We want to understand how Kabbalah views food products. All the food products can be separated into the main categories: vegetative, animal, inorganic, such as salt and water. Does this separation of products in our world have an Upper root?

M. Laitman: Of course. In general, there is nothing in our world that does not come from the Upper worlds. Therefore, if the human organism exists as a reflection of a spiritual construction, then naturally, everything it consists of—the elements, microelements, inner reactions that occur in it—all of that is determined by the forces that descend from the Upper world and materialize into bodies and everything they consist of in our world.

Therefore, I don’t know whether we can talk about the spiritual roots of every type of food and the reactions that it causes in the organism, in front of such a broad and unprepared audience.

E. Litvar: If I am not mistaken, this is our 16^th or 17^th talk. I think that those who watched the previous talks are somewhat prepared to understand you. Try to tell it to us like it is.

M. Laitman: Ok, I will try, although the topic is certainly unexpected and new.

M. Sanilevich: You said that the soul is separated into the still, vegetative, animal, and human levels.

M. Laitman: There is also the level of roots. The level of roots precedes the still, vegetative, animal, and the human being. It is the same in our world: we consist of these levels, and we need to fulfill every one of them.

We fulfill the human level through communication with others and consuming information. Through envy, aspiring for honor, power, and knowledge, we receive fulfillment from the society that surrounds us, the outside world. It is the same kind of fulfillment, the same kind of food. We can call it intellectual, social or human. In addition, we consume a great amount of energy on the animal, vegetative, and still levels, and this energy is manifested in various different forms.

That is, we do not simply consume what we feel. If we take a person out of the circumstances of our world into some other space, regardless of what we do to him, he will still lack the circumstances of an outside environment; these circumstances are essential in order for a person to function normally. The human organism is created as one whole with the rest of the world: the still, animal, vegetative nature and human society influence us through billions of different channels. We can call all of this food, without which an organism cannot function normally. I am not even talking about space and the whole enormous scope within which we also exist.

The surrounding world is our nutritional medium. By destroying its ecology, we create a multitude of problems for ourselves, including problems on the energetic and informational fields.

M. Sanilevich: Many people limit themselves to vegetative food. What is Kabbalah’s perspective on this?

M. Laitman: Kabbalah treats negatively all the limiting methods that humanity has invented because we see absolutely clearly from the spiritual world that a person needs to use (use correctly) everything that is created for him.

This comes from the fact that on the spiritual level, we include all the other levels: animal, vegetative, and the still. We are an element of one common soul, which includes the rest of the universe. A person is created to correct his level, meanwhile correcting all the other levels and using them correctly in order to rise higher and higher through them.

Therefore, in our world we are created in such a way that we need to consume lower and lower levels. Hence, those who limit themselves to only vegetative food or only animal food are absolutely incorrect. According to the structures of the worlds and the structure of the soul, this is wrong. It is correct to consume reasonably.

Let’s use my teacher as an example: he consumed everything, but reasonably, in a very reasonable measure.

M. Sanilevich: What does that mean: a reasonable measure?

M. Laitman: A reasonable measure was determined by him. In general, he constantly had a grip on himself and knew what to say “yes” to and what to say “no” to.

- It is 4:00 PM right now. This is when I usually eat two walnuts.

- What if you eat three?

- No, three is too much.

And so on. At the same time, he smoked. He liked beer and to drink in general. He never sat down to eat without a shot of brandy. He wasn’t picky about food, which was natural since he grew up in a half-starving environment. He liked simple, normal food.

E. Litvar: You said that our world is a manifestation of the Upper world. So isn’t vegetarianism just a manifestation of the Upper world?

M. Laitman: The benefit of vegetarianism is quite doubtful. It is merely human fabrication.

By displaying compassion for animals (I believe this is where the roots of vegetarianism are), a person doesn’t take into consideration that particularly a proper killing of animals gives him an opportunity to exist correctly. By existing correctly, a person reaches a state, where he can correct himself and the world, raise himself to a spiritual level, and achieve the purpose of creation. This is how the world is arranged.

E. Litvar: What is your opinion on hunting or fishing?

M. Laitman: It absolutely unacceptable! It can only be done for livelihood. Killing for pleasure is forbidden in all forms.

However, on the other hand, if in order to exist normally, one needs to disinfect the home and thus kill flies, mosquitoes, and so on, with some chemicals, then he can do this. In other words, that which is necessary for normal human existence is considered acceptable.

In this regard, we need to be like animals. No animal kills just because it so pleases. It has a natural need to fill itself, and nothing else. After it is full, you can stand next to it, and it won’t touch you. It has no greed—an egoistic need to cause you harm. Meanwhile, in us, on the “human” level, egoism erupts, and we “hold such indescribable feasts.”

E. Litvar: So it is enough for a person to have a particular set of products without having any diversity in the menu?

M. Laitman: There is a normal, natural set of products for each part of the world. For example, Indians grew potatoes and tomatoes, and these products were healthy for them. But the fact that people now use them in all the other parts of the world actually does not benefit those who live in completely different ecological and energetic regions. Why? This is because the whole world is harmonious and strictly intertwined, and if a person lives in one part of the world, he should feed on those products that are part of that area, according to its essence and its natural products.

The menu is fixed for a person according to his place of origin and habitat. However, today we exist so artificially and are so distant from our natural menus that it is impossible to imagine the kind of food that would suit us. Everything is already completely reversed and corrupted today. In addition, such inclusion of nations, nationalities, and civilizations into one another occurred, and our energies have intermixed to such an extent, that it is already impossible to correct the situation.

However, humanity will definitely come to a point, where it will consume everything that is given to us in this world, in a correct measure. However, this will only be after it corrects itself spiritually.

Humanity has no other possibility to “saddle up” its desires, to give them some normal form, other than by rising to a different level and engaging in spiritual development. Then we will receive genuine fulfillment—energy of a spiritual level, and we will use all the other levels only in order to support our existence.

M. Sanilevich: Food is pleasure. Does a Kabbalist receive pleasure from consuming food?

M. Laitman: If a person has entered a spiritual level, then everything he consumes from this world through his body and mind is elevated by him to a level of spiritual existence, merging with the other souls in a common love.

In other words, his existence as well as his consumption are already on a higher level. So he does receive pleasure from it.

E. Litvar: So our thoughts improve the quality of the food? Particularly the thoughts?

M. Laitman: Of course. We have no instruments to determine this, but there is a great difference between what a person offers you from the soul and what he gives you, wanting to get something out of it. The energy is completely different. Biology is beginning to discover this today.

Well, let’s move on.

M. Sanilevich: Blessings before meals—where did they come from?

M. Laitman: If a person would relate correctly to the world that surrounds him, he would wish to use every action to rise above himself and to raise this world along with himself, to tie everything into one in a common ascent toward merging with the Upper Force, which has prepared all of this. In that case, this inner aspiration of his would be called a blessing. It is not a prayer that is pronounced out loud; it is an inner expression of a correct attitude to the world and to what is predestined for the person, and, once again, it is expressed through bestowal and love.

E. Litvar: Let’s say that a person has lived out his life and never picked up a prayer book.

M. Laitman: It comes from the heart. Prayer books are created in order for people to know what to strive for, as an example or a standard of what each person needs to achieve. But the person needs to truly aspire to it rather than just uttering what is written. If he just reads, then they are not his desires. He needs to reach particularly that attitude to the world that surrounds him through his inner aspiration.

M. Sanilevich: Next question. In our world, the unit of energy is a calorie. What is the unit of energy in the spiritual world?

M. Laitman: It is a quant of Upper spiritual Light, or a Reshimo. There are five levels of spiritual energy, which in turn divide into five more, then five more, and in total there are 125 levels of spiritual energy. A person, in accordance with his capabilities to receive in order to bestow, balances himself out with this energy and at the same time, “weighs” himself in these spiritual calories.

It is a clearly graduated system that is described in Kabbalah very precisely and even meticulously, I would say. A person that follows this method knows precisely where he is, and how much he needs to take and bestow. Meanwhile, he enters a positive resonance with the spiritual world to such an extent that he uses all of his spiritual energy that passes through him without rousing any obstacles or interruptions from his side. Hence, as a result of attuning correctly to correspondence and similarity to the spiritual world, a person becomes an integral part of this world.

E. Litvar: Can we give any recommendations in regard to food products?

M. Laitman: Had we been animals, we would know exactly how much and when to consume, when to sleep, when to wake up, when to rest, when to go running, and so on. However, we are people, and in addition to the animal, we also possess an egoistic level. And on the egoistic level we act in a completely opposite manner to nature.

In order to balance out this egoistic level the way animals have it in balance, we need to correct our egoistic level. In order for that to happen, we need to come into contact and reach a proper correlation with nature so that our egoism will be neutralized. Then, on that basis, we will act correctly on the animal level as well.

On our level, we can never correct ourselves. We need to rise to a higher level for that. We cannot correct our animal behavior if we don’t correct our human behavior. And human behavior is corrected on the spiritual level because a person is an animal with the addition of egoism. One can correct the egoism only on the spiritual level.

Therefore, there can be no recommendations. We see that they do not help. As a result, none of our explorations give us a precise conclusion about what is and what is not healthy. Being an athlete is bad; being lazy and not wanting to move is also bad. All these diets cause a shortage of some elements in us; from one diet there is a shortage of one type of elements, from another there is a shortage of something else. There are no absolute recommendations in our world.

Although these new fad diet products are profitable, in reality there can be no such thing as a truly correct diet right from the start. Every person has his own individual diet in every given moment of time and every state, depending on how he will feel based on his properly balanced egoism.

M. Sanilevich: How come a person can live without water somewhere between three to five days, but he can live without food for a month or more?

M. Laitman: We can give various explanations to this question on the physiological level. However, on the spiritual level, water is the property of Chasadim—the property of bestowal and love, without which the human organism cannot exist. As soon as the organism begins to “dry out,” or the supply of bestowal and love begins to wear out, the cells stop functioning normally—they cannot interlink and transmit information properly. Therefore, the body falls apart, so to speak.

M. Sanilevich: And food is a property of reception?

M. Laitman: Yes, proper reception of food into liquid.

M. Sanilevich: Without reception, a person also cannot live very long?

M. Laitman: Of course, but he needs to counterbalance it with his intention: for what sake is he receiving?

E. Litvar: There is a very interesting tendency in the world today: society is becoming fatter by the minute, especially in developed countries. Where does this come from?

M. Laitman: I think this is how we began our talk. On one hand, a person is under the influence of society, whose main motto is to use, use, and use. A person’s desires, including his gustatory desires, are so wound up, that he is forced to satisfy them. After all, all of us take pleasure in consuming some foods today, which we did not want to consume sometime before. We have gotten used to them. Society imposes them on us. The food industry offers us more and more new foods. I never wanted to taste Chinese or Italian dishes, but I was taught to do this. Now I desire these dishes.

On the other hand, as I said before, it is an inner lack of satisfaction, which is purely psychological. It compels a person to fill himself on the animal level if he cannot fill himself on the spiritual level.

However, a person’s size in this world doesn’t mean anything because there are different layers of society, different aspirations and capabilities. In general, egoism pushes a person to think that it is better to have “too much” than “not enough.” But also, a person has a higher form of analysis: other than the analysis of “sweet versus bitter,” there is also the analysis of “true versus false,” what is beneficial and what is harmful. Combining these two forms of analysis constitutes the whole science of correct behavior of a person.

E. Litvar: What do you mean by the analysis of “sweet versus bitter”?

M. Laitman: You are drawn to the things that bring you pleasure and automatically reject the things that are unpleasant to you. This is how you act constantly. Besides this, there is a second type of analysis of a person’s attitude to the outside world: “true versus false,” where truth is what is beneficial to one in reality.

However, we can feel whether something is sweet or bitter. We have our animal, bodily sensors of perception and our mind for that; we can perform this analysis absolutely clearly. But how can we perform the second type of analysis: “true versus false”?

For that we need to rise from the level of the animal to the level of the human being. The inner analysis of a human being, “true versus false,” should always dominate over our natural, animal analysis “sweet versus bitter,” and then a person will advance correctly toward the goal that he sees as being the most important in life, and naturally he will not abuse food and gain weight.

M. Sanilevich: There is a series of questions about the use of names for food products in the Torah—in the description of coming out from Egypt, for example.

M. Laitman: If we would understand what it means for a person to come out from Egypt, then we would understand why while a person is in Egypt, he tastes one type of food, and when he is outside of Egypt, he tastes a completely different type. “The exit from Egypt” is a person’s exit from his egoism, a rise to a completely different spiritual level.

Like the Egyptians, when the Jews were in Egyptian exile, they ate meat, fish, and other products. But when they came out from Egypt, they began to feed on mann, “manna from heaven.” Through the analysis “true versus false” a person can only receive what is necessary for his spiritual advancement. Such consumption of food is called “manna from heaven,” because a person compares himself to his great image in the future, which he wants to come closer to—to become like the Creator.

A person in Hebrew is “Adam.” Adam comes from the word Dome (similar)—similar to the Creator. All of a person’s aspirations to this image are called “mann,” “manna from heaven.” Hence, we are not told of what they ate in particular, or what this “manna” is, but rather we are told that if we aspire properly to our spiritual prototype, then we consume food that is necessary for our spiritual growth.

M. Sanilevich: When people advocate the separated diet, many allude to the Torah: “bread in the morning and meat at night.” What is Kabbalah’s perspective on this?

M. Laitman: What is described is not separated dieting in our world, but rather the interaction of reception and bestowal. In other words, (taking into consideration the briefness of our talk), it is an allegorical description of the correction of the soul.

However, if we act accordingly in our world, we will be healthier. There is a concept “Padshiy Shacharit,” which means “morning bread.” When a person gets up in the morning, the healthiest thing he can eat is bread with olive oil. By dipping a piece of bread into olive oil, he satiates himself right from the morning with the healthiest food for the body.

M. Sanilevich: Does it make sense to do this?

M. Laitman: Today we cause ourselves so much harm in all other ways, that I don’t think any single action will help us. Everything should come from the Upper spiritual level, where a person should correct himself.

A person is incapable of holding onto something artificially. That is impossible according to the way nature is arranged. Only if we feel a vital necessity in this will we do it constantly.

Therefore, we need to try to somehow reach the heart of a person, but otherwise only suffering will raise the threshold of perceptibility. Suffering is necessary in order to force a person to listen—to listen to the fact that he needs to rise to a spiritual level and carry out a correction of everyone else from there. Otherwise, nothing can be done. We cannot convince a person who likes fishing or hunting that it is bad, or convince a glutton that he shouldn’t overeat. And what for?

M. Sanilevich: We are talking about Kabbalistic books and we have the following question: “Why is so much attention given to joint meals in Kabbalistic books? Does this act have a spiritual root?

M. Laitman: Of course. A meal on the spiritual level is when one draws the Upper Light and transmits it to others. In this case, absorption is not for the sake of absorption, but rather for the existence of others. Therefore, meals in all the nations personify friendship, adhesion, love, and bestowal to each other. This originates from a spiritual root.

Kabbalistic meals consist of an inner feeling that by sitting at a table together with friends, one participates with them in a common spiritual process. We think about how we are in joint adhesion, which of course is higher than our animal practices, and our souls are interconnected in a common spiritual construction, where we mutually create a common vessel for the reception of Upper Light, for perception of ourselves in the Upper world. Therefore, this is an immense, and I would say uneasy task for Kabbalists, despite the fact that on the outside people just sit there and eat and drink.

E. Litvar: In Caucasia, if there is a wedding, there isn’t a single person who is not welcome to sit at the table. Even complete strangers, who they see for the first time in their lives, are invited inside. Where does such openness and the desire to please another person come from?

M. Laitman: This is natural human behavior. If a person feels good, he receives great pleasure from the fact that others also feel good at that time. They connect with his desire and add their own happiness to him. Hence, a greater desire and a greater sense of pleasure are created.

Kabbalah is in favor of all people sitting together at one big table, and for this feast with a constant desire to consume and enjoy more and more, to never end. While sitting at this table, one is in a state of common love with “messmates,” and at the same time he “comes out of himself” and reaches the level of the Creator. It is said that this universal meal personifies fulfillment of souls with Light—the future state of our souls, when our world will rise to a spiritual level, and matter will ascend once again to its spiritual root and vanish in it on its own.

E. Litvar: Will such a moment ever come when all of humanity will sit together at one table and delight?

M. Laitman: Of course. This will happen on a spiritual level, and a specific target date is assigned for this: after 230 years at the latest this needs to happen. This date is absolutely strictly assigned. Beginning from Adam, who produced the first correction in the soul, and until the last person who needs to finalize this correction, according to spiritual roots, only six thousand years need to pass.

E. Litvar: You said “six thousand years according to spiritual roots.” In our world, do these six thousand years manifest as exactly six thousand years?

M. Laitman: There is no “six thousand years” in the spiritual worlds. Time does not exist there. Spiritual forces descend to our world in a particular order, and they form a certain succession here in the form of days, years, and so on. We are not talking about humanity’s existence and the universe overall, before Adam; we count from the beginning of the spiritual correction.

We can finalize our correction and rise with our sensations to the Upper world sooner if we draw spiritual forces with our desires. However, if we do not, the suffering will continue to accumulate and intensify, as we already see now, and it will still force us to do this but through a very difficult and lengthy path.

Due to the fact that you pick up a Kabbalistic book and begin to read (and you may not even understand what is happening), but this is enough for the forces that are described in the book to begin to influence you. They change your whole inner state, gradually adjusting it to a spiritual standard, where you are in your correct form, in the corrected state.

M. Sanilevich: You participated in Kabbalistic meals. What was on the table?

M. Laitman: Fantastic meals! The greatest meals of Kabbalists actually existed in the spiritual world at the same time as in ours, and they consisted of sliced onions, not even olive oil but sunflower oil, since it was cheaper, salt, pepper, a glass of local beer or a half-glass of the cheapest possible brandy for each person.

Every evening, after a good day at work, old people came together (I was 35 back then, and they were 70 or more). They were retired people, and therefore the cheapest possible products were on the table, and this was enough for them.

I am not suggesting that you have a similar menu because today you will not feel the kinds of tastes that they, and even I next to them, felt. Also, we need to understand that spiritual work requires a great amount of energy. At times, during the studies, my teacher, who was 80-85 years old, needed to “rise to himself,” so to speak. Absolutely exhausted, he ate a banana (a banana has a lot of calories, and he always had a supply of them), and while he ate it, he simply came back to life.

M. Sanilevich: What determines a Kabbalist’s way of life?

M. Laitman: In order to understand this, one first needs to find what is called a soul—that drop of unity that connects you to the rest of the world, begin to develop it, and from that drop you will begin to understand what the spiritual is and how it pertains to matter.

That, which a Kabbalist attains on a certain level of the Upper world, dictates to him a particular form of existence in our material world. When he rises to other steps, his behavior in the material world also changes.

M. Sanilevich: Is the prohibition against eating pork related to this?

M. Laitman: It is not only the pork. In no way is a pig worse than a frog or a dog. Just in our world it is an exaggerated embodiment of something impure. Since we are on the subject, a pig, according to the structure of its body, its organs, is very close to a human being. We know that we use many of the pig’s organs to perform transplants, to create various parts of the human organism.

I can say that in accordance to the spiritual root, there are certain souls that cannot consume certain types of food for their spiritual growth—and I am talking about spiritual food, rather than material. However, according to the fact that everything spiritual creates an imprint of itself in the material world, there are corresponding prohibitions in our world today.

Let’s look at this from a different angle. The single soul called “Adam” separates into several parts. One of the parts of the soul is called “Israel,” the other is called “the nations of the world,” which in turn separates into many various parts, for example: Muslims, Christians, and so on.

Each of these parts instinctively accepted particular limitations in our world, which come from the spiritual world. Muslims cannot consume certain types of food, Jews have even more limitations, and everyone else can consume almost everything. This only tells us of the type of spiritual correction that is placed on these people, these religions, but nothing more.

When everyone will be corrected and will reach their common spiritual level, all the limitations will change. Since everyone will be corrected and since all the souls will turn into one soul, Adam, we will be able to consume anything we want. It is said that that same pig we spoke about will turn into a Kosher animal.

M. Sanilevich: So I will not be any healthier if I don’t eat pork?

M. Laitman: No, nothing of the kind. It is necessary to observe limitations in order to correspond to spiritual laws, and that’s it. And this is only if spiritual laws impel you to do this. There are many interesting discoveries in this direction now. Geneticists are gradually beginning to understand that all of this is really tied to the descending of Upper Forces into our world.

E. Litvar: Does replacing meat with soy analogues have any basis to it, or not?

M. Laitman: We will never replace any type of natural food with some synthetic or half-synthetic surrogate. Obviously, it seems to us that it’s a protein, only in a different form—of a non-animate origin, and that it’s better.

As usual, humanity does stupid things, and then we discover how stupid they were, and in order to correct previous stupidities, we perform new ones. This goes on until we “resume our regular course,” as we say, become smarter, and don’t invent anything else. On this note it’s a bitter history coming to an end, and spiritual elevation begins. This is what we are coming to today.

M. Sanilevich: The word is that men make better chefs. What is the reason for this?

M. Laitman: Being a good chef requires much skill, fantasy, and I would even say a flight of fancy, which is more developed in men than in women. Women are more rational, real, and down to earth—in this regard they are stronger than men.

A woman is more closely knit with our world than a man. The fact that a man is as though slightly elevated over our world gives him an opportunity to allow the fantasy to fly: a great musician, a great sculptor, a great chef… No one is standing in the way of a woman achieving the same thing, but where are the results?

This is not meant to put women down. This is just the kind of separation that exists in our world. By the way, in Kabbalah the fact that women are more connected to our world personifies particularly that deep egoism, without which spiritual elevation is impossible. Hence, if a Kabbalist is not married, if he is not next to his woman, he cannot be corrected. A woman supplies him from within in such a way that without this egoistic inflow, which at the same time brings him down to earth, he cannot advance. The popular saying is right: behind every successful man is a woman.

E. Litvar: But why is it that at home women cook?

M. Laitman: That’s because a woman knows her family’s needs and how to better fill their needs. When we talk about individual needs, these are her husband, children, her family—she absorbs their desires and certainly satisfies them better than a man. A husband can do nothing about this. A woman feels all of this from the inside, from nature. However, this is only in a small circle: a family, a village, or even something bigger, but only if it belongs to her and it is considered to be her surroundings—that is her “home,” as we say.

M. Sanilevich: There is a prohibition in Judaism against eating dairy and meat products at the same time. How does Kabbalah explain this?

M. Laitman: Dairy products personify bestowal, while meat products personify fulfillment. In our spiritual development there are two completely different spiritual actions: bestowal and reception for the sake of bestowal, and these two actions cannot occur simultaneously. Hence the reason for such treatment of food in our world.

I am in favor of this kind of treatment (if it corresponds to a person’s nationality) if for no other reason than because the person will already somehow raise himself above the level of “sweet versus bitter” to the level of “true versus false.” In other words, a person will not receive the forces for correction if he does not eat pork or does not consume milk together with meat. This will not cause him to rouse the Light that reforms onto himself because this Light comes to one in accordance with his intention. However, if he carries out actions in our world, which correspond to the imprints of his spiritual corrections, this will all the same, bring him to a certain ascent over the animal calculation toward analysis on the level of a Human being.

Therefore, we don’t force anyone to do anything when they come to study Kabbalah with us. We simply begin to teach him. He can be Jewish or Chinese—that makes no difference. Everyone learns according to the same program, the same books. No one needs to follow anything or not follow anything. The only thing they need is to study. This is what causes the Upper Light to descend, and it begins to correct a person. In accordance with this, to the extent of a person’s spiritual ascent, he chooses rules of conduct for himself in this world. The soul of a person teaches him.

E. Litvar: In other words, whether he wants to or not is his business?

M. Laitman: We teach a person the inner, spiritual actions, and when he begins to work inside of himself, he begins to create his way of life on his own, in accordance to the spiritual world that is revealed to him.

A person must be independent in his inner work. In everything! Completely! We can’t compel him to do anything in any way. We can only tell him to study, to look at what is written, and to receive explanations. To the extent that a person absorbs those explanations, is able to explain them to him, and to the extent that it obliges him and moves him in some direction, that is how he should move. Only spiritual attainment, only revelation of the spiritual world should give him an opportunity to create this world of ours, to organize it in the same way as the spiritual. This is the predestination of all of us together.

E. Litvar: I often hear that Kabbalah is attributed to being a sect. According to what you just said, it turns out that Kabbalah cannot be a sect by definition particularly because a person acts exclusively in the frameworks of his freedom of choice.

M. Laitman: I don’t know the exact definition of a sect. Any party could be a sect, any religion, even a very big one, could also be a sect, and of course, any secluded environment can also be a sect.

Therefore, Kabbalah cannot be a sect. The books are available to everyone, the studies occur in an absolutely free fashion, no money is being charged, no one forces you to stay, there is no cult of some personality or a leader whom you need to obey and listen to. There is no evident hierarchical structure, no “vertical” so to speak. There are teachers who explain what is written in the books to you, but at the same time they try to keep themselves “in the shade.”

All of these principles were created by Kabbalists over the course of centuries. Under no circumstances do they indicate a limitation, a clannishness of Kabbalah, or its seclusion. It was hidden from people and began to be revealed (this was written about several thousands of years ago) beginning from the later half of the twentieth century. It is revealed because people have begun to feel that they are at a dead end, and Kabbalah is meant to show a possibility for solving the problems that humanity is facing today, and nothing more. If you want to—use it, if not—then don’t.

Consequently, freedom of choice in Kabbalah is an indispensable and necessary condition. If a person does not develop on his own, it is impossible to develop him. Kabbalah tells us about the spiritual development of a human being. It is an inner development. A person listens, reads… One person grasps it in half a year—understands what it’s all about, and another studies for five years, and nothing goes in. Nothing can be done about that. He just needs to be given portions—one spoon, then another—like a little child, so that gradually he will grow.

E. Litvar: I heard that the Kabbalists of Kotsk purposely created myths about not being very righteous people. For example, on a day of a fast, they purposely poured crumbs on their beards in order to show that they were eating and drinking. What was the point?

M. Laitman: In general, Kabbalists are very frolicsome. A person that engages in the development of the soul is always young because the soul does not have an age. A Kabbalist is like a child. He is always in search, always in action, and is constantly growing.

It is displayed this way with all the Kabbalists that I’ve seen in my life (they are not alive any more, all of them have passed). A person feels light and spiritual. It is not burdensome for him to be together with this world; he understands it and sees a holiday in everything that happens.

Therefore, this whole world is prepared for us. That will, in fact, be the best meal that is prepared for us.

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Denní lekce16.1.2007Mexico Tour, Rav Dr. Michael Laitman - January 2007 Radio Interview with Sergio Sarmiento for - “Radio Centro”

Mexico Tour, Rav Dr. Michael Laitman - January 2007 Radio Interview with Sergio Sarmiento for - “Radio Centro”

Mexico Tour, Rav Dr. Michael Laitman - January 2007 Radio Interview with Sergio Sarmiento for - “Radio Centro”

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Denní lekce16.1.2007
Mexico Tour, Rav Dr. Michael Laitman - January 2007 Radio Interview with Sergio Sarmiento for - “Radio Centro”

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Kabala Media
Copyright © 2003-2026 Bnei Baruch – Kabbalah L’Am Association, All rights reserved