The transcript has been transcribed and edited from English simultaneous interpretation, thus there may be potential semantic inaccuracies within it.
Daily Lesson (Morning) June 23, 2024.
Part 1: Baal HaSulam. The Last Generation, Part One, The Positive.
Reader: Hello, we shall be reading the writings of Baal HaSulam, The Writings of The Last Generation, Part One, sub-heading The Positive, item one. You can find all of our texts on kabbalahmedia.info as well as through the Arvut platform, and you can send us questions through there as well. Anyone asking a question here in the study hall is requested to stand up, hold the microphone close to his mouth, and to speak loudly and clearly.
Reading Item 1: The Positive (00:39)
A) Communism is an ideal, meaning moral. The goal “to work according to one’s ability and receive according to one’s needs” testifies to this. Again, A) Communism is an ideal, meaning moral. The goal “to work according to one’s ability and receive according to one’s needs” testifies to this.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:42) This ideal, is that the purpose of it, to work? I'm talking about egoistic communism, of course.
M. Laitman: To work according to the ability or receive according to the need, and?
Student: He testifies that this is the purpose of egoistic communism. Is that the purpose to achieve that?
M. Laitman: We'll see, I don't know. In the meantime, that's what it seems. I don't have more to add.
Reading continued: (02:43)
B) Every moral must have a basis that asserts it, and education and public opinion are a very unsound basis, and the proof is Hitler. Again, B) Every moral must have a basis that asserts it, and education and public opinion are a very unsound basis, and the proof is Hitler.
C) Because any concept of the majority is sure to triumph, it is needless to say that the carrying out of the corrected communism is by the majority of the public. Thus, it is necessary to establish the moral level of the majority of the public on a basis that will assert and guarantee that the corrected communism will never be corrupted. The ideal inherent in humans is insufficient, as too few possess it, and they are insignificant compared to the majority of the public. Again, C) Because any concept of the majority is sure to triumph, it is needless to say that the carrying out of the corrected communism is by the majority of the public. Thus, it is necessary to establish the moral level of the majority of the public on a basis that will assert and guarantee that the corrected communism will never be corrupted. The ideal inherent in humans is insufficient, as too few possess it, and they are insignificant compared to the majority of the public.
D) Religion is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of “working according to the ability and receiving according to the need.” Again, D) Religion is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of “working according to the ability and receiving according to the need.”
E) Communism must be turned away from the concept, “Let mine be mine and let yours be yours,” which is sodomite rule, to the concept, “Let mine be yours and let yours be yours,” meaning absolute altruism. When the majority of the public accepts this rule in practice, it will be time to “work according to the ability and receive according to the need.” The sign will be that each one will work like a contract worker. Again, E) Communism must be turned away from the concept, “Let mine be mine and let yours be yours,” which is sodomite rule, to the concept, “Let mine be yours and let yours be yours,” meaning absolute altruism. When the majority of the public accepts this rule in practice, it will be time to “work according to the ability and receive according to the need.” The sign will be that each one will work like a contract worker.
B) Every moral must have a basis that asserts it, and education and public opinion are a very unsound basis, and the proof is Hitler.
M. Laitman: (09:17) He wants to say that that's what I think, that morals can be manipulated in any direction. As Hitler came, and even though Germany was a very developed country and still he manipulated them and made them follow new rules, which he delivered to the people, planted in the people, and brought them to a state where the country became actually most primitive.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (10:38) What is he saying? So actually the person, the human is a creature that cannot be educated, that public opinion is not strong enough?
M. Laitman: Public opinion has to be very strong, very powerful, and we'll see what else needs to be added to influence the person.
Student: But this in itself is insufficient, education and public opinion is so weak?
M. Laitman: But you see that's the case, from life. You have to see that in order to change man, you have to bring him proof that will be more powerful than what he has from nature. If you want to transform him from an egoist to an altruist, then there's no power that can do that.
Student: If, let's say science proves today that altruism is worth it, that a person gains from it.
M. Laitman: You already have such data and evidence from science from here to the end of the world and it doesn't influence the public.
Student: Why is the person irrational, does he not understand that it's worthwhile to be altruistic?
M. Laitman: Rational yes, but mine is yours and yours is yours, that is above rationality. Man cannot accept it.
Student: Because it's opposite to his nature?
M. Laitman: Yes, the foundations of his nature. Therefore basically, if we stand against the conditions dictated by the Creator to become one man and one heart and so forth, we have no power to do that, and we won't ever be able to get to that. Therefore, it's a shame to try to engage in that naturally. We don't have any sufficient power that the Creator gave us for that, to be able to change and actually realize it.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (14:04) According to this principle, if I look at us, so we here today, I think only the Creator can do this, if we get this power from the Creator, and we here today, many of us I assume, don't want so much in corporeality. It's an interruption, I don't want to get some very important job or role, position, something that will prevent me from being in the lesson, so you're willing to give up many things.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: Now we experience this. Now, for the majority to experience this, this force has to come through us, right? We have to have a very high level of connection here, and from here it pours out to the public so they begin to feel it as well, is that the way?
M. Laitman: Well, let's say. I also still don't know how do we get there, to achieve such a connection between us that will have the power to realize this condition, this communistic condition and also to bestow to others.
Student: So we have to be concerned with our own success first.
M. Laitman: Yes, of course, at first, yes. There has to be a core from which you address all people of the world.
Student: But if I look at us, all the way we've come, but if I look at the friend, give him some important position, something, it's not attractive to him, right? A long trip, summer vacation, uninteresting, right? So, we've gone some ways, right, already, and now we just have to accelerate the pace, right, and to continue growing the connection between us.
M. Laitman: It's not just to keep going, it's not just to keep going.
Student: What do you mean, not just?
M. Laitman: Meaning that if we continue without some special work that we still have to do, then we won't be able to build a society that will serve as an example for humanity.
Student: Now, in the past many times, you gave us this example regarding dissemination. Of course, we need to focus on the connection, but if you take dissemination as an example, you said it's something that can connect us because we have this concern for something external, like parents, where if you don't have children it's nothing, it's like air. So, the question is, do we need to think today in such a way about dissemination as something that will build us up, right? What's important is connection. Dissemination is a means to that end, but do we need to think in that way, as you explained in the past, that we need to be like parents concerned for a child, and that builds them up?
M. Laitman: We'll learn.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (17:22) He speaks of something that will obligate a person, something that will obligate a person to operate as one should. Now I thought about a force called fear. Despite it sounding negative, my question is, correct fear, in my opinion obligates a person, compels a person. Is that correct? Do we need to reach a very certain kind of fear? Is that one of the conditions forcing a person to act correctly?
M. Laitman: I think that at first all these things are correct, but then when you truly want to advance to something valuable, to the goal, it's not going to work, not going to work. We're not going to be able to advance, to get closer to each other out of fear in the quality of giving. We won't be able to join that as one man in one heart out of fear. That's in contrast to that quality.
Student: If I fear stealing from someone. If I fear not giving to him enough, it's a different kind of fear but it's still fear. Or do you say it's not, maybe we need to call it by a different name? It's a concern though. I'm concerned about not succeeding to, you know, everyone shares this concern.
M. Laitman: Okay, we'll continue a bit, please.
Reading Continued: (19:34)
C) Because any concept of the majority is sure to triumph, it is needless to say that the carrying out of the corrected communism is by the majority of the public. Thus, it is necessary to establish the moral level of the majority of the public on a basis that will assert and guarantee that the corrected communism will never be corrupted. The ideal inherent in humans is insufficient, as too few possess it, and they are insignificant compared to the majority of the public.
M. Laitman: Meaning, that a person feels himself as a very small part of a huge public that surrounds him, and therefore all of the, how to put it, all of the power that grows in the public, all of those powers cannot influence a person to change his nature from egoism to altruism. Questions?
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (21:48) B, he says that every moral framework must have a basis that asserts it, and education and public opinion are a very unsound basis. And then he says that any concept held by the majority is sure to triumph, and so it is needless to say that carrying out the corrected communism is by the majority of the public. But he just said that public opinion is an unsound basis, so how can the majority of the public succeed in this? Also, he gave the example of Hitler, where the majority of the public was very highly educated but still, it was manipulated. So he says that public opinion is an unsound basis but then he says that you need to achieve the perfected communism through the majority of the public. Can you perhaps settle this issue? He says that it needs to carry out the corrected communism by the majority of the public, you need to establish the moral level of the majority of the public, but before that, he says, yes.
M. Laitman: He says that we have to establish it like this, that the moral basis will obligate most of the public to make sure that the correct communism will never go bad. So it seems like the beginning of the sentence contradicts the end of it. Yes, we'll see, we'll see onwards.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (24:11) I don't see a contradiction, because he says in item two that you need morality, and public opinion and education is a weak foundation for morality, and in C he says that when such morality is established, you need the majority of the public to agree with it. So, there's no contradiction here. He says you need to bring about such a moral level. If there is such a moral level, it'll guarantee the corrected communism, but education and public opinion is a weak foundation for bringing about that moral level. It doesn't contradict.
M. Laitman: Okay.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (24:55) Any ideal and morality can be manipulated and turned to something bad so what can be a strong foundation?
M. Laitman: This is something we currently don't see, we don’t see. If He gave us the moral that provides us power and confidence on the way, then there would be no question, but according to what we read, we don't see a solution.
Student: Is there such morality which is powerful and can go against human nature?
M. Laitman: Against man's nature? In the meantime, no. We still have to receive from above a special force.
Student: So all the methods, all the ideas, it won't help, right? Morality has to come from above, the foundation of morality.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: Okay, so what kind of proof is going to help in this? He says you need to bring proof. No proof will ever bring a person...
M. Laitman: The proof will be in practice that we can organize such a society that will be able to carry out these conditions.
Student: So you don't prove it to someone by trying to convince them, it's an example they see, right?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: And what's the condition for receiving that morality from above?
M. Laitman: Desire, demand.
Student: But how can a society achieve such a demand?
M. Laitman: We'll read on.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (27:01) What are the components of morality outside of public opinion and education?
M. Laitman: I don't think there is anything more.
Student: So why is this a weak foundation? What is weak about public opinion and education so much that he says they're insufficient, as though something is missing?
M. Laitman: It's not sufficient to transform human nature from egoism to altruism. Here you need something beyond, beyond the natural force that exists in each one.
Student: You need something more than morality to achieve the correct form, is that what he's saying?
M. Laitman: Yes, more than the current level of morals.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (28:06) It's written here that the authority of the public in such a way that will guarantee the uncorrupted; corrupted communism and the ideals inheriting one from birth are insufficient and they're a small part of the public. It seems that in society, each individual will need to be a great personality.
M. Laitman: Well, let's say.
Student: And that society will have to make sure that each one is fulfilled so then he can influence others?
M. Laitman: Yes, I don't know if that's sufficient.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (29:03) How will we truly draw that force from above, you said we'll need a force from above. How do we draw every day more of that force?
M. Laitman: Well, that we'll pray every day, we'll connect every day on top of all the conditions that awaken between us every day, and thus we'll advance.
Student: Do we need to come to some prayer which unifies everything we want and demand for the path or do we need to adjust the prayer every time, according to what we feel we need to demand?
M. Laitman: I didn't understand exactly.
Student: We have some direction in mind, right?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: And I'm asking to aim in that direction, perhaps we need to establish, formulate a unified set prayer, or maybe in addition to that from our work, from our daily work, we need to establish a prayer that lies between what we have and what we want.
M. Laitman: For sure.
Student: So we need both?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Reading Continues: (30:35)
D) Religion is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of “working according to the ability and receiving according to the need.”
M. Laitman: So, this is something we can organize through religion. Religion provides this ability to reach the public with working according to the ability and receiving according to the need. It's clear?
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (31:29) Where do we see in religion a connection between working according to the ability and receiving according to the need?
M. Laitman: Connection.
Student: Yes, he says that this is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of working according to the ability and receiving according to the need. What's the connection between religion and working according to the ability and receiving according to the need?
M. Laitman: It's a demand of religion that we have to yearn to reach such a state, that we work according to our ability and receive only according to the true need.
Student: Do you see such a demand in religion? I don't see it in any religion.
M. Laitman: No, I'm not talking about religion in the sense of what you think of today. However religion, that means a philosophy that fills people, fulfills people, and brings them to a certain bond between them so that the connection between them is in that shape called religion.
Student: Which means what?
M. Laitman: That they agree to be in their society and advance towards next stages, to opening up more and more the connection between them and the revelation of the upper force.
Student: I still don't understand this definition of religion.
M. Laitman: Definition of religion is that a number of people can connect between them and can each provide to his friends confidence. That if they advance in such a way, they come to a point where they're not just under the reign of the upper forces, but rather they can deliver themselves to the upper force that appears between them.
Student: And why would this suffice as a foundation?
M. Laitman: It's a basis that will hold because each and every one, by connecting to others, gives to his friends, and the more he gives the more power there is that he gives to his friends, power and a basis for that to happen to them.
Student: If I understand correctly, the difference between public opinion, which is an insufficient basis, and the religion, which is a sufficient basis, is that in public opinion there's no connection between people but in religion there is.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (36:07) In other articles when Baal HaSulam says the religion, he means the wisdom of Kabbalah. Here it's something different?
M. Laitman: No, but he's not going to start comparing differences between belief systems and religions and the connection between human beings.
Student: Perhaps a more general question. All the terms we use here, perhaps some of them we heard in the past, we are seemingly redefining them in these writings, The Writings of the Last Generation. Is it correct to look at it this way? We're now redefining morality, communism, religion, or is everything we learned in the past relevant today?
M. Laitman: Also, relevant.
Student: Okay, so we learned that the religion is the wisdom of Kabbalah, right? What he says here is that the wisdom of Kabbalah is the only sure basis to raise the level of the collective moral, to the moral of and so on. Is that what he means?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (37:15) How should we relate to The Writings of the Last Generation? We have writings by Baal HaSulam where he comes to open up the wisdom of Kabbalah to us, to give us some new knowledge to share with us, and there's the prophecy of Baal HaSulam where he describes something he sees will come to pass. But is this something we need to take into practice, to establish a society according to the laws of the Last Generation?
M. Laitman: No, it's not a document, but we have to try to understand and get an impression and somewhat change.
Student: Is this document something we should take as a foundation for our society?
M. Laitman: No, no, it's not an actual document of that nature.
Student: So what do we need to do with this study? Just place it in our brain, right in the box that there's something Baal HaSulam wrote.
M. Laitman: No, no, to get an impression, to change as much as possible through us and our environment, and continue.
Student: He writes here that the religion is the only true basis for raising the moral level of the public, and also, he wrote that the matter of faith in reward and punishment will come from the heavens and so on. I'm asking, should this be the foundation of the society that we're trying to establish? We're constantly establishing a society, right? People are performing actions every day for this and questioning should the society have a religious basis or do we need to raise faith and so on, all these things.
M. Laitman: We for now have to study what's written here, and afterwards it might influence us, and we might decide that we need to advance in some direction.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (39:29) We see that we have a congress. When we have a congress then several thousand people come and wholeheartedly dedicate all their qualities and abilities and time, investing in the society because they see that through this they will attain the purpose of life.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: And that changes everything, all the atmosphere and even new people who just join in, start working in the same way. So, what's written here, we see it happening, and also he says here that working according to the ability and receiving according to the need, that's the last stage, right? We're aspiring to that, and we see it happening.
M. Laitman: Very well, thank you.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (40:22) The first three items A, B and C, here, according to my understanding, he's just explaining that nothing but for the religion can bring a person to this transformation towards working according to the ability and receiving according to the need. Now he wrote that the generation of the fathers, this force was inherently there, and the sons do this through work with agreement and love, and also we have the idea we're in a in a Kibbutz, a communist society. The fathers, let's call them, do this through ideals and the others don't do it, they're not.
M. Laitman: What did we just read, what item? Four. So he says religion is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of working according to the ability and receiving according to the need, so what's before us is only to rise to that level of religion.
Student: To understand religion here, how it connects to the person or the beast or the future human, how is this the only channel through which we can enter the moral level he wants us to enter?
M. Laitman: This is what Baal HaSulam writes. Religion is the only basis sure to raise the level of the collective to the moral level of working according to the ability and receiving according to the need, meaning only through religion.
Student: The upper force is bound to this corporeal, simple level of religion, the customs through which we can enter into the spiritual religion?
M. Laitman: No, you're giving new definitions here, I don't see that it's the case. He wants to build on the basis of religion a basis for altruistic communism. Let's see another item or two and see what what ends and what comes out of it.
Reading continued: (43:14)
E) Communism must be turned away from the concept, “Let mine be mine and let yours be yours,” which is sodomite rule, to the concept, “Let mine be yours and let yours be yours,” meaning absolute altruism. When the majority of the public accepts this rule in practice, it will be time to “work according to the ability and receive according to the need.” The sign will be that each one will work like a contract worker.
M. Laitman: That's enough or read it again?
Reading continued: (44:20)
E) Communism must be turned away from the concept, “Let mine be mine and let yours be yours,” which is sodomite rule, to the concept, “Let mine be yours and let yours be yours,” meaning absolute altruism. When the majority of the public accepts this rule in practice, it will be time to “work according to the ability and receive according to the need.” The sign will be that each one will work like a contract worker.
M. Laitman: Questions on this, are there any?
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (45:22) Sorry, we have many questions. We read this yesterday in the Ten’s Zoom meeting and we wrote down many questions, so we have questions. First of all, why is he talking about the need to reach a state where the majority of the public agrees to this and then the change can be wrought? In previous articles, we learned that such changes, if the majority of the public agreed to that you'll always have a minority who tries to subvert the regime because that minority remains egoistic.
And here he says that if the majority agrees, then through democracy we force the concept of work according to the ability and receive according to the need. But people haven't changed from within, so how is it that the majority is now sufficient, and you don't need all of the public?
M. Laitman: I don't know, but he says that's what we need to do and then we'll get such a form in the public that can be advertised and agreed with.
Student: And what will the minority do?
M. Laitman: Bend. What can you do, what did the minority do today? Meaning it's not going to get worse but it's not going to be according to the entire public, but according to the majority for sure.
Student: And that minority won't be able to corrupt, subvert the majority?
M. Laitman: According to what he says, no.
Student: All right, another question about this. He says that the indication that they succeeded in making the change is that each one works like a contract worker, but today we see that people work as contract workers as well. Why is this an indication for inner change?
M. Laitman: No, that means that each and every one looks from himself, he’s looking for how to make his contribution to the public better.
Student: But this is an indication that I can't see the reasons for someone's work, right? I can see that he wants to work but I don't see why he's working, so why is this an indication that the society has been transformed, how?
M. Laitman: If each and every one wants to work in such a way, it indicates that the society is becoming corrected.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (48:31) He writes that working according to the ability and receiving according to the need, that's the primary ideal, seemingly. Is it truly so or does the Creator... We just said that religion means the wisdom of Kabbalah. The wisdom of Kabbalah has a main ideal which is the Creator. It's not just the unity between us, connection between us, all those are means for reaching the Creator, so why is it the end goal here, the main ideal?
M. Laitman: Do you have anything to answer him?
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (49:22) What's being discussed here are the stages of advancement, development, and if we're talking about the will to receive which is the lowliest, the connection is between man and his friend, the corporeal basis for how the system needs to reach balance on its lowest level, on the corporeal level. And this is what Baal HaSulam is trying to describe here. For the revelation of the force of bestowal to reach that level, the full level, how do we need to live, how to have proper, corrected relationships? On the corporeal level, that's what he's explaining, spirituality, that's the stages of the correction of the egoistic will to receive.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (50:17) If I correctly understand what Baal HaSulam is trying to explain to us, until the writings of The Last Generation, we talked about how a person reaches spirituality, right? And in the writings of the next generation, Baal HaSulam is talking about the next stage where there is a group that achieved spirituality, and now how to take that and deliver it to the world and the description he has here, that's after you have a group in spirituality maintaining it. He will talk about this in the upcoming items about how there's a little factory, right, where people start to work together. So all these years we studied, we learned about the stages preceding spirituality, and here he takes us further, right? It's truly the last generation.
M. Laitman: Yes, okay.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (51:21) Perhaps we can be assisted by what Rabash says, that if everyone is rich, everyone is educated and smart, how can they help each other? Only by uplifting each other's spirits, right? So, he says that here, this should be the work, the primary work. It's what the friend asked about, if each one gives according to his need and receives, rather, receives according to his need, works according to his ability, how can we come close to the Creator? Then it's only if we work according to that law of raising each other's spirits, right? Whichever state we reach, each time we can rise above it that way.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (52:13) With what we've read so far, from what I understand I think Baal HaSulam is talking about religion in different terms than what we've just discussed. I think what he means by the religion, he means faith in the upper force which can be in any religion, but in our religion, faith in the upper force for whom I work, and then I can work to the extent that I feel that I can work for the upper force, and then that rewards me and I can work without fear of receiving reward and I work as much as I can, and I receive as much as I need because the Creator guarantees I get as much as I need.
On that basis, the group can work with communism, right? Because each one is secure that he'll receive his reward. They're acting in order to bestow, but in that way, it's possible to establish a society that will have the appearance of communism, right, because each one has many things compelling him to work, the next world, and so on, the afterlife. And on that basis, now you have a question how to take this form, this shape, and turn it towards absolute altruism as he writes. And I think that the definition here is religion, meaning faith in a Creator which will reward me for my work, personally, and that can sustain an entire society. I think that Baal HaSulam is writing to that effect.
Otherwise, also there's more here, he says something very important. He says that the ideals inherent in man are not sufficient, right, and we can say that of ourselves, right? The group that studies the internality of the Torah will always be a minority. It's not sufficient to influence the whole world, but there is a thing called religion, which is broader, and it can hold more people, right, and on that foundation, we can build a group that can later receive that internality into it. But we as a group, which supposedly we have this inherently, or perhaps we were taught and trained, from what I understand, that cannot affect the construction, the establishment of communism directly.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (55:02) Regarding what he says here, what's mine is mine, what's mine is yours, and what's yours is yours, right? We just read that, and immediately we feel this inner rejection. When we talk about this in society, something always, there's always rejection, so what needs to happen in society for a person to just give up all of his properties, everything, and become? It's so far from the reality in which we live, how is it possible to even approach this?
M. Laitman: How we can get there is one thing, then the other thing is, by what do we achieve that? Meaning we have to reach a state where society, our society will sense that it is truly, internally equal, it's literally equal. And then one shall help his friend. Only in such a way we can advance.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (56:39) The explanation you gave to the friend in the beginning of the lesson about what religion is, if I heard correctly, it's where people aspire to reach a state of connection to the point where the Creator is revealed there, and that solves all the questions because the reward is there. That's how a person can work as a contract worker. I used to work as a contract worker selecting oranges and so on. You feel rewarded in every action you make and you can work endlessly, right? Because you say, every little thing I do, I receive payment for that, and a reward immediately. So, I think what's happening here is, that the cleverness of this is that the reward is in the Ten, in the group, the reward is there. And if a person reaches that state, then truly each one will work according to his ability and receive according to the need, because the reward isn't personal anymore, it's the collective reward, truly.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (57:47) The first day we studied these writings you read, you gave this definition of religion as a simple faith in man's heart. Simple in man's heart, so I suppose this relates to reward and punishment. Going by the friend's question, you need to have two things, right? Simple faith that I'll be rewarded, so I can work according to my ability and receive according to the need, and also we need public opinion of love of others, right? Religions don't educate towards love of others. If I just believe in the Creator, people are willing to do all sorts of things, but if there's no education and religion going in the direction of love of others, it's insufficient. The religion, the simple faith and education, when they go together, if we go according to what Baal HaSulam says that the religion means bestowal, then it is sufficient.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (59:00) I think that for the period in which he wrote this, well he had spiritual attainment but he wanted to come closer to the public, so he used the kind of language they could understand more or less. And he's using words, these words that we read here. Communism, what's mine it's mine, yours is yours, and so on. But when we read Rabash’s articles, his articles on the society, when we come here to lay the foundation for the establishment of a society and so on, that's a language which is more spiritual, right, it's closer to us. Baal HaSulam doesn't use that kind of language, but Baal HaSulam was in spiritual attainment here. He knew the Partzufim, the Sefirot, the worlds. He knew how the worlds cascade from above downwards, but he can't use this language here, so he writes about communism, altruism. He can't use words such as bestowal and so on here.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:00:11) It seems to me there is no contradiction here, whatsoever, because religion, that's the upper laws we learn from the Torah, right? Baal HaSulam talked about, we read the giving of the Torah and The Arvut, mutual responsibility, which is communism, it's love your friend as yourself. Every person in Israel learns this from a young age. But this, if we call it religion, right, the Creator compelling us, obligating us and that's what we call religion. So, that's the foundation because, ultimately, ethics and morality all come from religion. And we can see this, everyone agrees to this. It just needs to be brought in as a foundation because simple faith in man's heart, in what? In that it's an upper force, upper law the Creator demands of us, it's not about just establishing a nice, pleasant society. This is a demand, an inner demand from every person, and perhaps we need propaganda, right? Education in that direction but that's the foundation, that it's all required, demanded from above.
M. Laitman: Okay.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:01:37) In what do we need to be equal? As you said, in what do we need to be equal in order to advance toward the establishment of such a society?
M. Laitman: In getting closer, in wanting to get closer in a desire to connect. The more we connect between us, the more we rise towards our spiritual source.
Student: Do we need to feel that we need it, equally, to connect?
M. Laitman: Well, to measure I don't know, no.
Student: Only when we take another step forward according to what you just said, in connection, then we'll know what to do with that going forward, how to take the next step?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:02:49) I'm just trying to understand what it means: What's mine is mine, what's yours is yours. It's fine what’s mine is mine, what's yours is yours, right? What I need is what I need and what you need is what you need. What's wrong about that?
M. Laitman: What's not okay, that I still make a difference between what's mine and what's yours.
Student: Well, I have to make a difference there, see a difference. It's my necessity.
M. Laitman: No, if we are getting closer to communism, then in a truthful way, in a complete way. Then, we get to a place where there is no division between what's mine and what's yours.
Student: I don't understand that state, can you describe it? You're talking about a complete annulment of the self.
M. Laitman: The total annulment of the authority necessitates you to get to it because that's how the Creator wants you to achieve His degree.
Student: So, with that complete annulment of the self, the authority, there's no more me, right?
M. Laitman: No.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:04:20) He says, what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, is the Sodomite rule. What is so terrible about it, that the Creator utterly destroys that place; that nothing can develop from there.
M. Laitman: This is the whole state that we're stuck at and we don't understand how bad it is. It's the whole difference between the connection between us today, and the connection that should be, according to the spiritual forces of nature.
Student: Can you call it receiving in order to receive, if we use our terminology, where a person is stuck in receiving in order to receive?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: And the corrected religion of communism, right? That's receiving in order to bestow.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: Do you have intermediate stages?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: To reach receiving in order to bestow, you have to bestow in order to receive and then bestow in order to bestow. Because what our friend is saying is that there's a religion, such that a person is connected to the Creator, bestowing. But receiving pleasure, still, from in order to receive.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: Is that a stage we need in the middle, there?
M. Laitman: You have to. All those stages, otherwise you can't move from one stage to the next. You will rather only have an imagination.
Student: So, you need to reach a state where a person enjoys bestowal. Otherwise, he won't pass to the next stage.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:06:30) Just to understand things better: How should a person relate correctly to corporeal necessity? Let's say, in a communistic society, he receives what he needs corporeally. How should he relate to that?
M. Laitman: Neither, condemned nor praised.
Student: What does that mean?
M. Laitman: That it doesn't matter how much he receives, from zero to a hundred percent, doesn't matter what. Because he's doing it not according to what his guts are telling him. No, actually that does match, he does it according to what his guts tell him but not any other need.
Student: If he didn't have this calling, he would give that up, also?
M. Laitman: Yes, yes, of course.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:07:40) Religion is universal. So there's a universal rule here, that rule of, what's mine is yours and what's yours is yours, should be between a person and the Creator, so that this religion becomes the force of bestowal. I'm just asking, is it so, or what’s mine is mine what's yours is yours should come between a person, that should be between a person and the rule of bestowal. Then it'll be universal.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:08:21) It appears that the concept of religion is very important here. So, I wanted to ask if we can read in the next items, twenty-two, twenty-three he talks about it more. Perhaps we can explain it there.
M. Laitman: That's a lot after where we are.
Student: Yes, but there he discusses it exactly.
M. Laitman: You think we should do it, now? Okay, let's read.
Reading Continues: (01:06:55)
V) No propaganda can secure a coercive rule over future generations, and neither public opinion nor education will help in this case, for they naturally tend to grow weaker. The exception is religion, whose nature is to grow stronger. We see from experience that nations that accepted religion coercively and compulsively at first, observe them willingly in the following generation. Moreover, they are dedicated and devoted to it.
We must understand that although the fathers took upon themselves altruistic communism because they were idealists, there is no guarantee that their children will follow them in this regime. Needless to say, if the fathers adopted communism by coercion, as is the manner in egoistic communism, it will not endure for generations, but will ultimately be overpowered and revoked. A regime cannot be imposed except through religion.
M. Laitman: Questions?
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:10:48) So, it appears that Baal HaSulam is answering not just how to reach this kind of regime one time but cause it to persist through the generations. But when he speaks about religion here, it seems he's speaking about the standard concept of religion, because he talks about previous generations and peoples that accepted religion simply or perhaps through coercion, and then they get very devoted. He's talking about regular religion?
M. Laitman: I don't know, give a specific definition of what you're trying to say. How does it work here, how does it work there, and so forth, and then maybe we can use our minds to make up our mind.
Student: By religion, he means that there’s some guarantee for a person that if he behaves in a certain way he’ll receive reward from above, eternal reward even. Is that the intention here?
M. Laitman: Well, let's say.
Student: And then he begins this whole part with the foundation for our writings and so on, is the will to receive, inherent in every created being. What we're talking about here is how to reach the will to bestow, right? So in those terms, he says we need to go through the stage of receiving in order to bestow, or rather bestowing in order to receive for the will to receive to have some reward from this action.
M. Laitman: Of course.
Student: So what happens after? How do you emerge from that stage which rewards the will to receive but is opposite to the corrected form? How do you emerge from that?
M. Laitman: How do you arise in order to bestow?
Student: How from bestowing in order to receive, which is the externally correct but internally wrong, how does this invert?
M. Laitman: After the stage of development of bestowing in order to receive comes the stage of bestowing in order to bestow.
Student: Sure. How, because why would he continue to behave that way?
M. Laitman: Because there's an inversion here and how could that really happen, like you're saying or rightly so. Here is the question. How can we, nevertheless rise to bestowing in order to bestow?
Student: Maybe you can ask to also read item W, that's shorter.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Reading Continues: (01:14:25)
W) When I say that a communist regime must not be instated before there is an altruistic majority, I do not mean that they will be willingly idealistic. Rather, it means that they will keep it for religious reasons, in addition to public opinion. This coercion is one that will last for generations, for religion is the primary compeller.
M. Laitman: As understood.
Student: So, what is this religion that is the major reason of religious here? He's describing a seemingly stable state that continues, that extends itself. That religion is the primary compeller. What does that mean?
M. Laitman: What I'm saying that we cannot lead a communistic regime before there is a majority of altruism, doesn't mean that they will be so in terms of a desired ideal. Rather, it means that they will carry it out due to religion in addition to public opinion. Again, that they will carry it out due to religion in addition to public opinion, and this coercion is destined to exist for generations. Since religion is the main obligator.
Student: What does it mean that religion is the primary compeller?
M. Laitman: Let's ask this together. What does it mean religion is the primary compeller?
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:17:07) The Essence of Religion and its Purpose, he says a clear definition of religion, he says the essence of religion is to develop in us the sense of recognition of evil. So, if we take that definition that the essence of religion is to develop in us the recognition of evil, it works out correct pretty well here. That if we really engage in Torah, the Mitzvot, in the method of correction and this method we aim ourselves and all the society towards developing in us the sense of recognition of evil, then it kind of opens in a person a certain kind of like new horizons of where to yearn for. Because the current state is always bad and we always have to yearn for a good state, and that can compel you.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:18:12) It's again, why are we all here? Because we understand there's no chance. Nature is compelling us to develop this way, it's either Torah or suffering. Rabash also writes about that. Actually, those who understand there's nowhere to go and you have to implement it, and nature is compelling its plan upon you.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:18:34) It seems simple to take this in the Ten. I must feel that the friends are greater than me, even though I don't feel that. But that reason compels me, I must go according to that.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:18:52) I think he says it in one sentence. It's to observe the commandments of the Torah and to let the light work upon us. Only the light can perform this change in us, where we will subjugate ourselves towards this light so it will truly let us develop and to aim towards what He needs to give us. Because only it can develop us and lead us to where we have to go. But it's under the conditions that we observe the Mitzvot of the Torah. There is no other way, only the light of the Torah can do it.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:19:30) A person is an egoist by nature, so only through coercion you can start to work and love thy friend as thyself, which is the morals of the religion and from this coercion, from this pressure, he can start discovering and acquire the pleasure from bestowing to them, see them developing, growing in his eyes, he truly enjoys it. And then gradually he starts to understand that the reception that he enjoys, the Kabbalah he enjoys, is also flawed, because he has to bestow without any reward, and he starts to distance himself from that Kabbalah and to yearn for an upper force that will put inside of him the quality of bestowal, and then it continues as it's known.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:20:28) Again, this matter of religion is the compelling force. It's not like in education and public opinion, like in developed countries like Germany, where it's without connection to the Creator, without the next world, without the things that can compel me beyond my simple reason. So religion compels me, is that there's a belief that comes not from the people around me that I see that are not giving me anything, but there's something special that's assured or promised to me according to what's going on. I understand there's a judgment and there's a judge and there's a sentence, and everything is assured before me.
If this is what's compelling me to work, then Baal HaSulam writes that such a foundation will compel and sustain itself and hold. What should not confuse us is that it doesn't lead us directly to altruism, to absolute altruism, but rather it can sustain the state of the ego within a state of communism, meaning to hold on to an egoistic, communistic state but to remain at that level. And if we want to understand how from that we come to the desirable state, I think that from this and from other writings, if there's a big society that operates in this way, gradually what stems from this is the next level. What will stem from it, what will grow from it, is that people who want to be in this, and for us to absorb it somehow. In the multiple of people, it also will lead also to all the nation, the whole people, to rise upwards. But there has to be a certain nation that observes it, even in an egoistic way to begin with. That's how I understand it.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:22:29) If I understand this correctly, if religions, which is reward next world, if I understand religion correctly, if they would say that the public opinion would be in love thy friend as thyself, then egoistic communism could take place, meaning the reward in the upper force and the public opinion where I'm willing to live for others would be enough. But it's still not enough because without attainment we cannot change our nature, meaning still to change our nature is not enough. But it would probably be a good world, but that's not the goal. The goal is nevertheless to attain the Creator and therefore what's the point in doing such a society where everyone out of fear loves one another and there's this public opinion that supports it? But that too does not take place. It's probably a stage that has to be.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:23:31) There's another thing in religion that is different altogether from all the rest of the methods, which is that it depicts to us a final state, the most exalted state, which is adhesion to the quality of bestowal of the Creator, and in no other method it doesn't appear. There is no such thing, the final goal. And it is actually so exalted, so great, that it is supposed to obligate us to build a corrected society, and this society is, to build a corrected society will not be a goal as it is, but as a means to reach Dvekut, to reach adhesion to that exalted state, and that's supposed to compel us.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:24:27) What I heard so far from what we read is that Baal HaSulam writes, by what's happening in this world, how we can work with the screen. That's actually what it is, to receive what I need, to work as much as I can. Correct?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Student: And all this talk that he does here about how to receive the fear of heaven, meaning he needs to go through a certain stage, which in the work of the screen is to move to working above reason, right? And then according to what we learn, when he moves to work above reason, when he has that ability, he can develop a connection with the Creator and that connection is called Yirat Shamayim, the fear of heaven. Can you say that?
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:25:36) Actually the question as I understand it, is how from Lo Lishma we come to Lishma, in most of the public. Now, if there's religion, which let's say I have a reward from the Creator, which is egoistic and I'm willing to bestow on the society, now, when we learn that to come from Lo Lishma to Lishma, we need a certain force that will operate upon us, and for that we need to put the goal before us, as we want to come to Lishma, otherwise, it doesn't work, otherwise it's the potion of death. Now the society, if in such a society there are people that are the leaders that are in attainment and through them there's the reforming light, is that enough? Or also in the society, people need to somewhat aim to reach Lishma? Or is it enough that it is the leader of this society?
M. Laitman: No, no, no, the entire society has to be like that.
Student: How will they receive it if they don't have a point in the heart? How will they get that?
M. Laitman: Which society are you talking about?
Student: We're building a society right now. Baal HaSulam says that the compelling foundation is religion. Why? Because people believe that there's an upper force, and these are the upper laws, and there are the authorities of the great ones of the religion who say that this is what you have to do, love your friend as yourself. People believe them and then there's the public opinion that yes, this is correct, but everyone expects an egoistic reward, and that's Lo Lishma. Now, how from that do we come to Lishma? What force will draw the society, each in the society to feel that this is the need for his soul? If there's no point in the heart, how will that work?
M. Laitman: It's not going to work. Very simply, it won't work because he doesn't belong to that level called above reason.
Student: I'm asking, let's say, if there's a nucleus in such a society of people who learn Lishma, through them, if they're part of that society, can that force move to the rest of the public or not?
M. Laitman: No. A certain illumination of course, but anyone who doesn't, who doesn't have a root in Lishma, it's impossible.
Student: And can suffering lead a people to such a feeling, of a point in the heart?
M. Laitman: I don't know, I don't think so.
Student: Meaning it's a long process.
M. Laitman: If at all.
Comment (Petah Tikva Center): (01:28:27) Maybe, with everything that we heard so far, maybe what he's offering here, he's talking about the collective, not about us. We have a method. But for the general public, he's saying one thing, I want to move you from receiving in order to receive, to bestowing in order to receive. In order to bestow, you don't know what to do, I just want to take you one step forward and see if it will be worthwhile for you. You'll work like contractors, you'll feel the reward, it'll be good for you. Only one thing, to move to that. And that's the ideal and the public opinion won't do that, you need religion for that. He's not offering them spirituality; he's offering that it'll be good for you and the will to receive if you just learn what it is to bestow. To bestow in order to receive.
M. Laitman: So what did he do?
Student: He advanced humanity one step forward. From there, there are additional steps. Those who have a point in the heart will go much further. But those who are not, at least won't harm.
M. Laitman: Can they come out of it? Because that could become a swamp.
Student: But if we hear here what we heard so far at least, in the first few items he says it's worthwhile, it will be worthwhile in the will to receive to make a step forward, to be in bestowal, to bestow in order to receive. There is a reward in it. Because otherwise, how can you explain what spirituality is? How can you draw the collective of humanity to screens and work truly in order to bestow?
M. Laitman: Yes, you are correct.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:30:22) We, in the last 200 years, there are these regimes that have created separation between us what we call religion, what we call the state or the governance of the state, also in Russia and America, and many of the big regimes that exist in the world. And if I understand correctly, it's a question, I'm asking it. Is Baal HaSulam saying right now that you cannot observe this reality that we're developing in without connecting religion to the regime? It won't work without?
M. Laitman: That's clear.
Student: Yes, that's what he's saying, meaning he's offering a certain new form of regime here?
M. Laitman: As much as we want to separate between the two, corporeal development and spiritual development, you can't.
Student: And that maybe is the beginning of this innovation. What he's saying here is, please note, you cannot separate religion from the physical normal way of running the state. You have to have them together because you'll have a third world war and a fourth world war, and who knows what's beyond that.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:31:45) Just to understand a principle in item 5, he defines here actually that the state of mine is mine and yours is yours is called absolute altruism. And this is when most of the public will begin to implement this, of mine is mine and yours is yours. Then you can reach to working according to one's need and receive ability and receive according to one's need. What's missing, in mine is mine, and yours is yours, which will lead us to working according to the ability.
M. Laitman: That's Sodomite rule.
Student: No, mine, yours is yours. That's not the Sodomite rule. He defines it as absolute altruism. Yours is yours and mine is yours?
M. Laitman: Yours is yours and mine is yours, yes.
Student: He writes that it's a degree that precedes the final degree, which is to work according to one's ability and receive according to the need. And I think to understand these definitions of what it means, what's the difference between this and that? Because if you were to ask me after 20 years, I would define that the previous degree is to work as one's ability and work according to one's need, and then mine is mine and yours is yours. But here he writes it the opposite way?
M. Laitman: You start from, mine is mine and yours is mine.
Student: And then after we reach absolute altruism, then the majority of the public accepts this rule in practice, and we move to working according to the ability and receive according to the need. So that's the question. What is there in working according to the ability and receiving according to the need that isn't in let mine be mine and yours be yours?
M. Laitman: It's an influence, a real influence. Without thinking about it, you can say that it creates life itself. But he brings a definition there, that it's not in the accounts, and into consideration.
Student: What is this coming to this higher degree of working according to one's ability and receiving according to one's need, why is that higher? Why do we even need that if so?
M. Laitman: He starts to restrict himself. In bestowal, he doesn't restrict anything. Bestow as much as possible and in reception, receive as little as possible.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:35:04) During this I read the rest of the items and I saw that communism is supposed to be a result. It is altogether, it's supposed to be an idea that is a result of this state, it's a final state. And until the whole society becomes altruistic you can't even observe it, meaning it's a preceding condition. That is that all our work needs to be on the correction of the measures of man in order to do this, meaning it feels like we did something too early here in the conversation to talk about. There's another thing that remains in a misunderstanding that we have to first do a economical correction so that only after that, in the end, to ask from others to give up their assets, etc., which is also supposed to be some kind of contradiction to what he's saying here, in the end that I couldn't understand.
The question is how we take the discussion we're doing here and truly go towards where communism is a result, because we see that the communism that we tried to do in coercion, in addition, we paid a very high price from humanity, and it didn't succeed. So how do we focus more on what we're calling religion here, which is also not completely clear what religion he exactly means, Baal HaSulam, which is the one that will make the correction that will draw light, that will be a Torah first of all?
M. Laitman: Religion is a religion of bestowal, that's what I think. What else did you ask?
Student: How do we implement this and move this religion so it won't be coerced to the whole of the public before we reach a communistic regime that will not be coerced, that will not be just mine will be yours and yours will be yours, only altruists can reach such a degree?
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:37:15) There's an answer in item 21, if you could read it.
Reading Continues: (01:37:22)
U) Clearly, no stable and proper social life is possible except when controversies among members of society are resolved by the majority. It therefore follows that there cannot be a good regime in a society unless the majority is good. A good society means that the majority in it is good, and a bad society means that the majority in it are bad. As I have said above, Item 3, communism must not be established before the majority of the people in society operate with a desire to bestow.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:38:37) There are these numbers in the items 1, 5, 4, 7, all kinds of middle numbers?
M. Laitman: These are additions.
Student: Where are these additions from, where are they from?
M. Laitman: From Baal HaSulam, I don't know where they are written.
Moderator: (01:39:02) In the continuation of the book there's that, I'll explain, in the handwritten notes, what you're seeing is in the handwritten notes, so in the text there were like these combined in their little pointers, little numbers, where are they sending, it's not exactly clear, but there are additions later in the end where that's where addendums exist, but you won't necessarily find 4 and 4, 2 and 10, etc., that's how it appeared in his handwritten notes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:39:52) When can you know that you can somewhat implement this in a small society, let's say in our society in a Ten? To what extent can you see the measure, the change that it's enough in order to bestow that you can experience such a regime or such an interaction between us?
M. Laitman: I don't know. I think, first of all, we need to do something mutual in writing that is accepted by everyone, that this is how we understand for now, what we received from Baal HaSulam regarding communism. And then, when that's accepted by us we need to see how we can begin to realize it. What are the stages, what are the first stages until we hit something that's not entirely clear, not entirely known, it becomes vague, foggy. First, we need to write such stages, these first stages. And try to accept them, to write daily how it's received, what's not received and what is it doing in us. And after that, we need to see methodically, what are we going through? That's it.
Student: Meaning, to examine the border of our ability, according to that?
M. Laitman: And not beyond that.
Student: I remember you once said that there was a matter of even buying fruits and vegetables together, all kinds of certain commonalities and some kind of communal work. Even here between different professionals, we were very cautious in knowing we can use this kind of bartering or anything like that. But in short, you're saying you can start to examine a little bit the borders of those things inside the society, in this communal society, in us, with us?
M. Laitman: Not yet. Not yet. We were more advanced.
Student: You or your society then?
M. Laitman: Yes, back then.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:43:19) Just according to what we talked about in Item 21, where he writes, what I said above, that we cannot do communism before the majority of people are in order to bestow, what we read in 23 was that you cannot have a communistic regime prior to having an altruistic one. It will be willingly idealistically. Rather, it means that they will keep it for religious reasons in addition to public opinion since religion is the primary compeller. It's not that it's a result, it's actually accompanying the development of a person. It's not that we can't receive these altruistic things, but it's actually we have to develop with the rest of humanity, it can't be a result, it has to be part of the action of development for us. Each time it's developing and developing to the development of society, since they're observing it.
M. Laitman: Yes.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:44:40) And he says that when there will be a majority that is altruistic, it doesn't mean that there will be an ideal of this, that it will be altruistic and want to be bestowing but rather he says the meaning is, that they will observe this due to religion together with public opinion. So according to public opinion, this is what compels them to observe the laws of religion that will draw the light upon them which can operate upon their heart, and then they can become altruistic. And they can't wait for them to want this naturally?
M. Laitman: It might be an explanation, but we didn't learn it this way.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:45:41) It could be there's a stage where the public coercively will agree with dictatorships, just like in the times of the Great Assembly, the Sanhedrin.
M. Laitman: I don't think so, I don't think so. Also, when you have a state where a part of the public, out of lack of choice agrees to a certain direction, that's still very far from accepting the wisdom of Kabbalah as the idea of the foundation, it's very far from it. It doesn't exist neither in the head nor in the heart of the public.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:46:59) Now, as we're making this scrutiny, I made this effort not to remember other articles about Baal HaSulam, to kind of try and take all that's written just here, that we're reading. And now you gave us a mission to make from the writings of Baal HaSulam and write these stages. And here I felt like without the peace article where he explains about the work of the Creator, he can't advance in the scrutiny of what religion is here. Can we do that, can we connect that?
M. Laitman: You can give it a try.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:47:56) What will assure that we're advancing the society from the stable state of religion to doing it like we know, in the right direction in order to bestow?
M. Laitman: We are lacking a path for seeing the final place, the final state, and understanding their way.
Student: That little institution that we started in the direction of religion, like Baal HaSulam is guiding us. What will be different in it from the examples that we know that are stuck in that state of religion? At some point when we try to do this correctly, we'll have to go through the stage of religion as Baal HaSulam writes. And what will assure that we won't stop being stuck in that state when we see that religion is stuck in a stage of itself?
M. Laitman: It doesn't get stuck, but it develops in this way. They have nothing else besides that. They don't get stuck when they have to back away from something, no.
Question (Petah Tikva Center): (01:49:46) Yesterday you gave us advice to start giving out coins and start playing with it. That's how we heard it. And we really started to think what to do with it so several things came up. One was for each to have a certain number of coins and then we kind of like use it, each what he needs, and whatever is left over we do something with it?
M. Laitman: Can I give such an example?
Student: Yesterday you gave advice to give out each a thousand coins and start playing with it, to do a game with it?
M. Laitman: I don't recall such a thing, how did you hear that?
Moderator: Yesterday in the morning lesson you suggested to maybe do it like a game, and to divide it, like give out stickers or something that's similar to the value of money, and to game them. You didn't give clear guidance. To plan a game between us where we will resemble a society that is balanced, that is aspiring for connection and give contentment, like what Baal HaSulam was describing. Not practice to give out coins, but here in the Tens to play a game where we can kind of emphasize this idea. In the Ten to probably started to think about ideas, and maybe that's what he was asking about.
Student: So, let's say each one is discerning how much he has and what he needs for necessity, and all the rest goes to the other things. That's one method that we thought we could work on. Another method is where there are no coins, but rather each gives according to his work. Let's say according to one's characteristics, he gives his time or knowledge to the society. And then he works according to his ability, and the society gives him what he needs, meaning for necessity. And we kind of got stuck with it, we didn't know how to continue with it. If we could maybe give direction here?
The question is, do we have to look at it as an economical matter, or like each has a certain sum of money in the society, and we're giving out to each as much as he needs, and with the rest we use for, let's say, for dissemination or other things? Or do we maybe cancel this economical thing, this money thing, and we say, okay, each has something to give to the society, whether it's in duties and knowledge and all kinds of such things, and this is what he actually gives to the society and he receives what he needs from the society?
M. Laitman: For the time being, I don't know. I didn't feel too well these past few days. Let's hope that this will pass, and I will connect to you more in action.
Student: Should we continue to try in that direction?
M. Laitman: I don't know, I can't activate myself and give you an answer.
Question Petah Tikva Center: (01:56:56) When you talked about that game, it appeared to me a very distant thing, and then I started to imagine how it could be. So I depicted that, imagine, that maybe every friend in the Ten is receiving a thousand coins of life let's say, and his purpose is to get rid of them as fast as possible and to pass them on to the center of the Ten, and to leave in him as little as possible and then you can even define let's say, I have given the greatness of the Creator, in a certain manner that's worth 50 coins of life. To do a certain act of dissemination, that's worth 20 coins of life. And that's how each in the Ten tries to truly give those life coins to the center of the Ten?
M. Laitman: It'll be unreal, but it will be according to some false estimate.
Question Petah Tikva Center: (01:55:06) For the scrutiny of those who are playing this game, maybe it's worth saying that the economy is crashing and there are no coins. You have to eat, you need electricity. We need all the things that we need, what do we do then? How do we behave then? There are no coins.
M. Laitman: Yes. We are done with all the questions. What do we have now?
Reader: We can continue there or we can go to Pirkei Avot. What do you prefer? We have Rabash Letter 38.
Announcements: (01:56:07)
Song: (01:56:36)