Part 2:
Baal HaSulam. Preface to the Wisdom of Kabbalah. #19
Reading #17 (00:45) “Thus far we have clarified the three foundations in this wisdom..”
1. R. (3:02) Meaning, what does Baal HaSulam explain to us? He is explaining to us the system that we do not see, it is a system of forces that act in our world and we do not see where they are and where they act and the results of their actions, nothing. He is saying that there is the light, a desire, and desire in the light that affects the desire. The desire changes and changes the light and in the communication between the two they build complete worlds, ABYA. And the light expands in all the worlds, in ABYA from one degree to the other, and this is how they come all the way down to us, to this world. The light that comes from above is called direct light, the light that comes back from the created beings, back up, it's called Ohr Hozer [reflected light.] And everything is basically incorporated in the light that comes from above downwards, to the desire, the actions that the light invites into the desire and the actions of the desire respond with the light. All in all, this is what happens in reality. Up to here it's clear? No questions, nice, so next.
Reading #18 (05:00) “Now we shall explain the five phases in the screen by which the levels change..”
2. S. (11:23) It is written, the regular vessels of reception, they have been the hunger and the appetite that he refers to. How long can he be in the state of not receiving as a result of shame? He'll end up dying of hunger?
R. We can't really measure time into the wisdom of Kabbalah and take it into account. Rather he is in a state where he is either hungry and wants to eat on the one hand. On the other hand he feels that the host, with his whole heart, he feels the heart of the host and he feels that the host wants to give him all the food. That is what stops him. He can take it, he can't cancel the host, he can't remove him from being in front of him. That is why he is in the state of being neither here nor there, he can't receive because shame will not let him, he can't cancel the shame, because he can't cancel the host and that is how he remains until he decides that there is one more option: that it is possible to receive in order to bestow. Where does this come from? From the host showing him his heart, how much he loves him, wanting him to take it under all the conditions. As a result of that, a person reaches an understanding that if he will restrain himself, not receive because he wants but rather receive because the host implores so much, so he organizes a new relations with the host and will eat only because the host wants, so much so, the pressure from the host helps him build new relations.
S. Before these pressures that build these new relations, I want to speak only on this layer of hunger, just hunger. The hunger, he has to insert some food if he is hungry, he needs to eat food. This is the definition of this machine.
R. No, hunger is a sensation, it's a feeling. How many times in our life we were hungry and suddenly something happened, some events, some rumors, something and we stopped feeling hungry but rather we go into a new sensation, a new desire. The hunger in itself is one of the things that stimulate us but it's not that it determines.
S. So in this allegory, he's not really determining, he doesn't decide, he's not really hungry, physically hungry?
R. He's physically hungry and even though as much as he is hungry, he can say that he can be in bestowed upon, affected by something to such a degree that he will stop his hunger, let's say something explodes by his side, then you feel hunger? I don't think so.
3. S. (15:55) The screen and the vessel are two different entities or they just show a more evolved Kli, a wiser Kli?
R. The screen and the vessel are basically the same because the vessel goes according to its screen.
4. S. (16:20) The shame, is that an egoistic or altruistic quality?
R. Shame stems from having ego but in itself it's not egoistic. It is a phenomenon that exists in a developed vessel that feels that there is one more kind of control outside of him and he has to go according to that control.
5. S. (17:10) It says here that as a result of the coupling and striking, coarseness inverts into purity. How does coarseness invert? Is it some kind of addition?
R. To the extent that yet had coarseness and you overcame it, now it no longer stands in your way of being in adhesion with the host, you can use your coarseness like purity.
S. This I understand but how does it invert and the coarseness disappears to become something new?
R. For the time being it does, yes.
6. S. (17:57) It seems like there’s a patent here that takes us into a state of lowliness to a state of honor, a disgraced honor. It’s like a psychological trick for the receiver. I want to receive for me and I will get contentment and to the giver, it is all in my mind, these thoughts, like this exercise it is an addition of the intention that comes what, to lower the feeling of disgrace, I found a trick of how to receive without being disgraced?
R. It may be that in the beginning that is how it was but later you really give yourself to actions of bestowal and by that you don't feel any disgrace.
S. It is like a method to get rid of shame, that’s what it seems like?
R. In the meantime you can call it this way.
S. The Upper One does not know what I have in mind?
R. If your problem is how to receive but only in the way of not being ashamed but if your goal is about being ashamed or not being ashamed but rather giving back to the Upper One what you feel He wants to give you, that is different.
S. How do we make this hunger, into this yearning to adhere to the Upper One? How do you turn hunger into connection?
R. If you would not have any hunger, how would you have any connection with the Upper One?
S. Hunger is a problem, shame with the hunger is another problem. They are two outcomes of this connection, of this new intention in order to bestow. One, you do this stabilization in the vessel so that he can receive and second, there's a new form of connection between the receiver and the bestower, the Upper One. Call it maybe adhesion or equivalence of form or a desire for a different kind of connection. I'm asking about the connection? Is it born here between the lower one and the Upper One?
R. The connection that is born between the lower and the Upper One goes through a restriction, where the lower one does not want to work with the natural vessel that he has. He does not want to work with these natural vessels, yes. He wants to turn himself to be like the Upper One.
S. Here comes the recognition of evil and hatred of the will to receive for myself?
R. Yes and in this way he turns himself to be a bestower.
7. S. (21:15) What is the difference between Tzimtzum [restriction] and the Kashiut of the Massach [screen]?
R. The restriction is an action on the opening of the vessel.
S. And the Tzimtzum is on all of the Kli? How does it turn the Kashiut to working on the screen?
R. First the restriction and then the screen.
S. And how does the transition take place?
R. First he says I don’t receive anything and then by the pressure of the host he nonetheless comes closer, he agrees and he receives.
S. The connection with the host begins with a restriction and develops with the screen?
R. Yes.
8. S. (22:20) He explains here that the refusal of receiving builds the vessels of reception. We've been speaking about what is the relation between the action of refusal of rejection and the action of prayer that we are doing that is supposed to lead to the same result?
R. The rejection and refusal are the restriction for the vessel and the prayer is usually over how do we receive the screen and return ourselves to be the opposite of the bestower.
S. He writes here that through the rejection and refusal a new Kli is formed, so what’s formed is the screen?
R. Through the rejection and refusal a screen is born, yes.
S. And through prayer what is born?
R. The ability to work with the screen in order to bestow. I can't say that one comes without the other because both actions go against the will to receive and that is why he has to be in the connection with the Creator and all of time to be in a prayer.
S. What I hear is that the rejection and refusal is the previous state?
R. Yes, of course.
S. And prayer is when you already have some contact with the Creator.
R. Through the rejection and refusal you have a connection with the Creator and then you can actually start praying, to establish an extended connection between you.
9. S. (24:25) We learn from this what exactly we need to restrict? In practice of our work?
R. In practice of our work a person may perform a restriction only once he knows that he is getting a chance of fill himself without any way to pass this pleasure to another including the Creator.
S. Through out my day how can I identify such a pleasure?
R. If I decide that I want to give contentment to the Creator through the group, then I try to do it. If only to the group and the Creator I cannot think about the Creator or maybe I can do it for the Creator but I can't do it for the group, then it is not a whole action. At some point I am mistaken.
S. I will ask again, throughout the day I have all kinds of pleasure in my vessels, food, sports, connecting with the friends, meals with friends. We now had Passover, which was a week. You keep feeling that you're being fulfilled all the time inspired by friends and music and friends around and doing duties and you're constantly inspired and vessel is filled with light and what point do you say stop now I need to do restriction?
R. Why?
S. Because I want to be right, I want to be a vessel of bestowal, I sit, eat and enjoy with my friends?
R. You cannot do these things while doing good to your friends by making them feel better.
S. That is what I'm asking. How to sit in the meal that a friend's made and to give them pleasure by eating? Where is the restriction here, why I'm not enjoying the food for myself?
R. Yes, rather you are sitting with them together and all of us together we are enjoying the fact that you are sitting together and getting filled with good food.
S. So I have to be in some kind of concern so that I will not just enjoy? There's pleasure in the meal so what do I do, just sit down and eat? It happens sometimes, you find that you're enjoying yourself with the friends.
R. it's good to enjoy yourself with the friends and it's good to enjoy the meal. It is not wrong. The question is are you using that in order to connect to the Creator.
S. If I find that I don't, that I'm just in the meal on the most basic animalistic level.
R. That is also good because at least physically you're sitting with them and eating and you are happy. Having that is also good. However it is already something else. It is not a spiritual action, it is a corporeal one.
10. S. (28:45) So from this state how do you do spiritual action?
R. When I start asking myself what gives pleasure to the Creator through what at this moment do I give pleasure to the Creator. And how can I connect to Him at this moment in a way that I will feel that he gives me pleasure and I give him pleasure.
S. This thought is that the restriction? This effort, because it is an effort, it is invested in the pleasure?
R. Yes. It includes a restriction, a screen and reflected light, and the clothing of the direct light in the reflected light. And the coupling was striking between them and the fulfillment already.
S. We learn that there is an order of actions, and I hear that we are trying to understand what restriction is and what the screen is. The action here includes all of these action together. Can I say now that I'm doing only a restriction?
R. It's possible I'm doing a restriction. I don't want receive anything from the host of all the things he brings me even though I really want it. But, because of shame, because of the calculations I won’t receive, well that is restriction.
S. So what he says now is I need to stop this pleasure? He's now eating a meal with his friends.
R. If he's already in the process, he's already eating, that's something else. But we're talking before he started eating. When he now decides what his purpose and what vessel he will receive the fulfillment.
S. On the spiritual side what does it mean that it's the food in his mouth or he's just thinking about the pleasure he's going to have?
R. Of course there's a difference. Either he decides before he receives the pleasure or he decides after receiving the pleasure, when the pleasures influencing the decision.
S. We awaken to the sudden thought like the friend described. I suddenly find myself now I receive and we find ourselves only when we receive not before, I already received some kind of pleasure and then I remember about the Creator, so here I want to do a restriction.
R. So what's your question?
S. So I find myself thinking of the Creator already while I receive, I need to do something with this pleasure I need to stop it. Should I say I'm not willing to receive this pleasure until I don't scrutinize my relationship with the Creator?
R. Yes, there are many additional calculations here.
11. S. (32:39) Is the hardness of the screen, is that when the giver and owner of the abundance is that where he stands?
R. Yes but it has nothing to do with the hardness of the screen. The hardness of the screen is the force of my rejection to receive the pleasure in order to receive.
S. And the hardness of the screen that means that my desire to see it in front of me as the owner of the meal as the host when he gives the meal I want to be present with him in the meal?
R. Yes.
S. And how does this grow the Kashiut of the screen how do I make the host as the owner of the meal?
R. That I don't know, it's according to the states you're in.
S. It can be a meal of of an olive or a meal of a steak, what makes the meal of the owner the host to give me a steak?
R. You need to do it in order to bestow with whatever you receive from the host, then to the extent that you increase your ability to receive in order to bestow then you see before you what he's presenting.
S. And this happens because it feels that he wanted to give me more in my ability to hold on to it?
R. Yes.
S. What limits my ability to hold on to it that he wants to give me more?
R. Your attitude.
S. What does that mean?
R. Your attitude to the host.
S. What changes my attitude towards him?
R. To the extent you value him.
S. What changes my value to him? What changes the components here in this equation?
R. Everything depends on you to what extent you work on yourself in order to increase the greatness of the host in your eyes.
S. Okay, how do I change the greatness of the host in my eyes?
R. Through the society.
S. So there is a host, there's me, and there is something else?
R. Yes.
S. Where are they sitting at the table?
R. By your side.
S. And who are they for me?
R. That an environment where you discover the host.
S. And I actually want the host to give them the steak?
R. Well that's something else already, that's your decision already.
S. What changes the decisiveness that doesn't change? What changes the component?
R. The unchanging component is the love of the host to me.
S. And what's the variable in this equation?
R. My relation to the host.
12. S. (36:31) Are we working directly on forces of rejection and refusal, or are they a result of the importance of the Creator?
R. The importance of the Creator is the most important thing.
S. If we're constantly concerned of the forces of rejection and refusal, will come above them
R. Yes.
13. S. (36:58) Is there something like bestowing pleasure?
R. Yes.
S. Do you restrict the pleasure for yourself and put the pleasure into the collective to the friends and to the Creator?
R. Also it's possible.
S. So is there a collective pleasure?
R. Yes, there is.
S. And where is this received in the vessel of bestowal or reception?
R. The collective receives this pleasure in a vessel of bestowal; it has its mutual what they want to bestow to each other, to connect to each other, and then they start receiving pleasure in a form of the host wanting to pass to all of them. Meaning they have a different kind of feeling of pleasure.
S. And which part will be as pleasure because you have a will to receive for yourself, do you also can have pleasure in that vessel also, or are we talking about that at all shifts to the pleasure only to the will to bestow the vessel bestowal?
R. I don't understand.
S. Can we eventually in our vessel of reception receive pleasure or does it all go and we need to shift it to the vessel of bestowal eventually? and that the pleasure will be in the collective vessel?
R. I don't understand.
S. Then I don't understand my own question. Maybe someone can help me.
R. it can only add to the mass. Yes, Chaim maybe…
S. In the explanation the way i understand it, is there a possibility to receive pleasure in the vessel of reception itself?
R. Without any conditions?
S. Will there be any circumstances that you can receive in the vessel of reception or will always be transferred to bestowal and will be received in the general vessel?
R. Why a general vessel? well ok suppose yes it's possible to receive pleasure only in the general vessel.
S. Under any circumstances the vessel of the original vessel of reception will not receive pleasure?
R. No, never and with no one unless, we have to understand that just as the upper one takes care of the lower ones so a mother when she organizes and prepares some food for her baby gives him it's so as if she's paying for all these things, and all he needs to do is receive. But if they've already reached states where he has to receive only in order to bestow so it no longer works as it did before; you have to pay either the lower one or the upper one. In spirituality and in general in the world nothing goes from one person to another in order to receive; the whole system is only built in order to bestow and that is called the Creator.
S. So, the vessel of reception cannot receive pleasure unless it receives it in order to pass it on?
R. Yes. it doesn't understand it and it doesn't see it doesn't feel it; but if you already feel it then you understand that he does it, then it’s a spiritual degree already.
14. S. (42:48) The decision for the restriction is received once and then it holds. Why doesn't it hold for me?
R. The decision about the restriction has to be all the time in the created being that he only decides through it, through the restriction to relate to the upper one and then he restricts his vessels, the ordinary egoistic ones.
Reading item number 19 (44:18) “We have already explained that the...”
15. S. (47:09) When the hardness is greater than the coarseness is a spiritual state and when the coarseness is greater than the hardness is that a corporeal state?
R. Let it be like that for now, think of this like that.
16. S. (47:31) Why is it that only the fourth phase was canceled and there are five phases in the screen?
R. Because in the fourth phase the will to receive is revealed in a way that only the will to receive is revealed in it, and therefore it feels that it’s in her.
S. What do the other discernments in the screen give to the coarseness of the root 1 2 3 4?
R. the development of the will to receive from its root, that's how it's gradually revealed, gradually growing.
S. If we received these discernments, we received them already and it didn't have to perform a restriction, why do we need a screen now over the reception in these phases?
R. The first second third phase until the fourth phase, doesn't feel its will to receive in it; only in a way that instinctively overcomes its will to receive and pass to the next phase. And, the fourth phase wants to receive and enjoy what comes to her
S. The fourth phase causes the other phases of the vessel to feel the other phases in receiving in order to receive?
R. No. There isn't reception in order to receive in the other phases, only in the fourth.
S. So why do you need a screen over them?
R. You don't need a screen.
S. So why are there five phases in the screen?
R. Because in the fourth phase you have all of the will to receive which needs a Massach of five phases; five desires, five screens, five Zivugim of striking and so on.
S. On the one hand Baal HaSulam says that all the Behina Dalet, the fourth phase are the real vessels and immediately after that he says that the fourth phase is Incorporated in all five phases, isn't it this way, is it written this way? What does it teach us, why is it important that only the fourth phase is the real vessels but on the other hand it’s included in the five phases?
R. It’s a result of the development of the five phases that it has, and when it places the Massach against the upper light then, it’s Massach is also connected with five phases; and this is how it's built, it's all included in five phases
17. S. (50:46) Why is the emergence of the vessel is an infinite and absolute process, why is there not beyond phase four?
R. It came to the end of its development, what else? Let's say sixth phase?
S. It's standing before all the upper light, how can it be so final?
R. According to its qualities there can't be more than the fourth phase here, because she wants to receive everything to be fulfilled with all of the upper light and that is why after it nothing else can come.
S. It wants to be filled, that's the amount.
R. Yes, quantity and quality and so on.
S. Is there any other component in it wanting to be fulfilled other than the desire to be fulfilled with the upper light, is there another value?
R. To enjoy the upper light that comes to it in its full form.
S. For itself.
R. For itself.
18. S. (52:06) We talked about the restriction and the pleasure meaning if I'm sitting in the tasty meal that the friends prepared so there’s a process of restriction and I make that calculation, I want to ask about the daily life not some special tasty meal, on a daily basis I stumble upon all kinds of actions that aren’t pleasure, many times it feels the opposite of pleasure?
R. like forced?
S. Forced, like all kinds of Zoom meetings and lessons Etc. I don't feel the pleasure in it, there's no fulfillment there, where is the work of restriction and screen there?
R. If you do it or you don't do it, it depends on where you want your action to be aimed towards?
S. But I have no fulfillment to perform the restriction, I'm simply sitting. I'm sitting at a zoom meeting with my friends and I don't feel fulfillment and if there's no fulfillment, where does the restriction come in?
R. It doesn't come.
S. So what should I do?
R. There's nothing to do. How will you discover pleasure in your life, poor one?
S. Spiritual actions are not always pleasurable that I feel pleasure and I perform restrictions or maybe it is?
R. Spiritual actions always bring a sensation of pleasure.
S. So if I find myself..
R. If this action is directed towards the Creator; and if I arrange my vessel and my desires towards Him and I want Him now to enjoy what I have prepared for Him.
S. I don't have a fulfillment to perform the restriction so how can I start the spiritual action? I'm in a zoom meeting with my friends and I don't feel fulfilled, I don't feel the pleasure, so how can I start the process where there's no pleasure to start this whole engine?
R. Can you explain what he's saying?
S. if in order to receive I have to start any spiritual action how should I feel the pleasure in order to receive to start a spiritual action, must I feel pleasure in this world in my will to receive in order to receive, this corrupted desire in order to start performing the restriction spiritually, or i can perform an action that in when I feel no pleasure in my will to receive?
19. S. (55:20) There's a prohibition to receive pleasure right we're not allowed to receive an order to receive?
R. Whoever wants to enter such relationships with the Creator then yes.
S. So I'm sitting in the zoom meeting and I'm not enjoying it. What is my work? I don't need fulfillment or screen to cope with my pleasure and to calculate to the Creator for whom? there's no pleasure so what is this state?
R. There's nothing you can do, you still need to see the friends and to try and be included with them, what are they receiving and enjoyment from?
S. It's clear but my work if I don't receive pleasure from what we are learning now, you receive pleasure you're not supposed to receive in order to receive, so you should replace a screen or rejection force, and then in the vessel of bestowal you get the pleasure.
R. But before that you need to do an exercise, that in this exercise the Creator will be greater in your eyes than all the pleasure that you received. Then, you can direct everything towards Him for His pleasure.
S. But what happens in a state where you have no fulfillment, that's the question if I understand it correctly: Where's this whole process if you don't get the pleasure? If to begin with I don't get the fulfillment I don't get the screen I'm okay, so what should he do in this state when there's no fulfillment and you need no screen, what to do?
R. You don't do anything. What do you have to do?
S. I don't want the zoom to be meaningless, I don't want to just sit there and feel that I wasted my time so I don't know what to do, I don't have vessels to work with because I have no pleasure?
R. So you need to search for pleasure by being with friends, by speaking with them, and in the connection with them you feel the friend that's by your side and in this way you want to advance with all the friends, with everyone, to hug everyone.
S. I'm trying but what I feel is the taste of sand, there's no pleasure, so to just keep on trying?
R. Talk to them and you will see how gradually it rises from the taste of dirt to a taste of a steak.
20. S. (58:44) to continue this but from the opposite way, before the zoom with a friends with the lesson I don't want it, I perform actions of overcoming, I come above my reason and slowly here during the work there is some flavor there is pleasure, how do I know once this dirt became a steak how to not receive it in order to receive?
R. The greatness of the society, it has to stop you and in it the greatness of the Creator.
S. In the zoom meeting there is the feeling of connection and work where can we feel the flavor…
R. What for?
S. what for? In order to give him contentment, that is what we always say.
R. So where does it disappear to
S. That's exactly the question.
R. You're asking me?
S. Yes.
R. You stop your intention. You went somewhere else, you changed the vessel.
S. When we go out of the lesson and there's a meeting and there's a feeling of upliftment or happiness because we want to give contentment to the Creator, what should we do the next second in order not to be thrown away again?
R. Only to rise; whoever doesn't go up immediately goes down.
S. How to go up, what to do now?
R. To rise with the greatness of the Creator.
S. More and more.
R. Yes.
21. S. (01:00:38) Determining that the action is spiritual depends on the receiver or The Giver?
R. Only the receiver.
S. What makes…
R. To the extent that he asked to receive the screen upon the coarseness that is revealed, and he is in that screen and he is wrapped in it and from it he already receives the Host and he does such a calculation for the benefit of the Host.
S. What exactly does the screen give?
R. The screen gives you the relation of the upper to the lower one, in accordance with the attitude of the upper to the lower one; equivalence of form.
S. All the connection between the receiver and The Giver happens on the screen, Massach?
R. Yes.
S. So the connection between them is the Massach?
R. Yes.
22. S. (01:02:18) We have the noon lesson and immediately after we have a meeting of our ten, and during the lesson which is also something that we prepare for there's a feeling of excitement and expectation for the meeting of the ten. Because in this group meeting we have a place, it’s a great privilege to be with the closest friends, with the closest thing to the feeling of the Creator which really excites and moves us. So, this process on its own is exciting and uplifting and in this process of reading together we feel an uplifting feeling, a mutual vessel through which we feel the feeling of the Creator. How to pass on this feeling to all the friends, how to share and pass an emotion, it's such an elated thing, a special thing?
R. Within the force of connection, the force of love; that is where the rest of the components of forces and emotions go through.
23. S. (01:04:04) What is he trying to tell us when he says that in phase four that the root of the four phases include in it which is the most pure of them all?
R. That Bhinat Shoresh, root phase, is also in the fourth phase and the fourth phase also includes in it all of its roots and all of its phases that are prior to her.
24. S. (01:05:00) There's a desire and there's a certain fulfillment that the Creator wants to give and then there's the restriction. How can I through the fulfillment that the Creator gave me to perform adhesion?
R. Fulfillment comes from a sensation from above and adhesion comes from your feeling towards the Creator; that if you want to be adhered to Him through fulfillment with the help of the fulfillment then you can do it. to the extent that connection with the Creator is more important from connection with the fulfillment, to the extent that you're able to sacrifice yourself for the connection.
S. So why is there a fulfillment at all, we can manage without it?
R. No you cannot do it without it, because we feel the fulfillment and according to it we calculate. Think about it.
25. S. (01:06:30) How do Aviut and Kashiut connected, are they close, does one stem from the other?
R. The Kashiut, hardness is the hardness of the screen, Massach, and Avuit even though it's related to Aviut of the Kli but it also belong to the Massach. Aviut and Kashiut, coarseness and hardness are actually related to the screen.
S. it says that Aviut is the measurement of the desire that includes in the Massach, is that also the quality of the Massach?
R. Yes, yes, we spoke about that.
S. so to begin with there is some extent of a will to receive?
R. Yes.
S. And the Aviut is built through Kashiut?
R. Yes.
S. You said that Kashiut is how I reject the pleasure in order to receive.
R. Yes.
S. When I have a measurement of will to receive that i restrict, that is Aviut, coarseness?
R. It's called Kashiut, hardness, because you're rejecting it.
26. S. (01:08:22) To continue the friend's question, when a friend has no desire to meet how does he work with the restriction, maybe there is another work here when i have no will of my own and i'm impressed from the friends in the ten and specifically from those desires we can start to work, right?
R. We'll talk about it more.
27. S. (01:09:07) There are times that we don't want to receive anything from the friends, it causes us discomfort, even embarrassment. Is the reason for it is our ego or it stems from our Creator, our root that in it there is a lack of reception?
R. It's our ego and pride.
28. S. (01:09:51) in our condition we can't exactly know what we can receive in order to bestow to the Creator, so we add each thing that comes to us from love to one another or we still need to calculate?
R. No nothing to calculate. Only to refuse.
29. S. (01:10:31) I would like to scrutinize this saying that the coarseness has becomes refinement: we know that coarseness and refinement depends on the size of the desire, the course is the desire the biggest it is, so how can it be that after the correction a big desire becomes refined, how can the courseness become refinement?
R. The screen is what does it.
S. The screen is a bigger reflected light. It's not the desire that changes, greater direct light goes into the refined light and the reflected light is bigger when the bigger screen is there and it becomes greater reflected light, right?
R. Yes.
S. So that it is not clear why it became refined?
R. To the extent your desire is greater with the screen it will be purer, is that clear?
S. It's not clear because the desire doesn't change is simply a bigger screen, more refined is a smaller desire the way I understand.
R. No, without a screen without restriction to the extent the will to receive a smaller it is purer, like with a baby; and to the extent that the will to receive is larger like with a screen, for example with a big criminal then he is purer.
S. Maybe we're talking about item 19 where Malchut comes from higher roots which become more refined when there is a screen and a greater direct light enters into the Partzuf, maybe that’s was is about?
R. I don't know, try to write it in words even in Russian and we'll see what you want to say.
30. S. (01:13:11) In the work from below upwards the Reshimot grow all the time in this gap we have darkness right, meaning we raise MAN over this darkness that is made for us and then we want to receive and to discover and receive attainment?
R. We'll think about it, I don't know your microphone also isn't that good.
31. S. We can say that the attainment is through emotion, right?
R. Yes.
S. There's a pleasure and a place for pleasure there?
R. Yes go on.
32. S. He writes that wherever person feels the pleasure he doesn't ask for the purpose of the pleasure in this relates to his question how would I start receiving corporeal pleasure, how can I start performing actions with my desire with the vessel, when I receive I start receiving pleasure how can I start thinking about who is this form to perform a restriction and my bestowing too. He writes that whenever a person feels pleasure he doesn't ask what's the purpose of me receiving the pleasure, so how can we start performing actions of restriction and who is it for?
R. He's by the friends side in the study and the group and then he has something to balance it with and you want to stop himself, if a person was alone like Adam HaRishon then he wouldn't have any ability to determine himself.
S. So he does perform actions when he receives pleasure?
R. Tes of course.